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Open your eyes 05/03/2012 2:49:00 PM
I re-read this article every year. My child has been attending Lower lab for four years and has no idea that the building is shared with another school. This article is filled with vague and unverified attributions. I agree with an earlier post that the author has probably never visited the school. I would prefer using the enterance facing Lexington Avenue as I take the train with my child every day. The Lex enterance is the "front" entrance. I also happen to be a white attorney and once tried to get in the 198 entrance to get to lower lab. I was told to go around and enter on Third Avenue. Unlike the "Black" attorney I didn't make a stink I just walked to Third evgen though I was running late. This whole "us" vs. "them", "rich" vs "poor" rabble rousing makes me sick. If a child did not qualify for G&T so what? Quit blaming others. The G&T results may be inversly related to household income but family upbringing and natural ability are certainly the most important factor in how a kid will learn and perform. The real tragedy is the continued perpetuation of the NYC underclass culture with disrepectful kids speaking broken English, referring to themselves using the "N" word and dressing like punks. Finally, do we really believe that a woman sent her child to a non-zoned school? I'm sure she had no problem with registration! Ask yourself as well, how did the author find the woman? Crooked journalism at its worst. The voice schould stick with the sex adds and leave writing to the professionals.
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Ana 5804 Yr 02/27/2012 9:01:00 PM
I imagine that all these positive reviews about this school is because you who defend them are not black people, and your children of course have the best privileges, they are not affected by this situation. it is understandable that you do not mind and ignorant at the same time. Racism is suppose to be past part, but unfortunately even though we do not want to realize there are still many left. They should be treated with the same privileges.
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Ecashdollar 11/22/2011 2:30:00 PM
Steven Thrasher has this all wrong. I think that even his sub-headline (Whites in the front door, blacks in the back door) is completely false. According to his own statistics only 24% of the Straus kids are black. And, for Lab 69% are white (which is lower than the percentage of white people in this country). I bet he's never even visited the school. I've been there dozens of times, and I can tell you that I've gone in the front door and the back door depending on where I need to go. In fact, when one of the security guards is out, all the kids go in the back door. In addition, the back door is only the back if you're looking at it based from 3rd Ave. The back door (what Steven calls) is positioned by the playground and is really the main entrance of the school. Also, all the kids who take buses (many Lab kids, too) go in the "side" door which is on 95th street. So, the school really has 3 entrances. They changed all the kids going in one door to minimize the traffic. As you can guess, a Manhattan school that is sharing space has to be smart about where the students enter and at what times. It's completely a matter of logistics. To me this is just an article that is trying to perpetuate race distinction in this country when we should be helping all students do well and making sure we service the needs of all appropriately. That's why the G&T test is the only measure by which they choose students to go to G&T schools. Then, the students who score well are selected by random lottery. This is not responsible reporting by any means.
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09/06/2011 2:24:00 PM
Lower lab school attendance is determined entirely on test scores, how is the school racist if it doesn't even see it's students until they walk through the door.
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Guest 04/28/2011 3:08:00 PM
The answer is pretty simple. All children should be raised by the state under identical circumstances --- go to the same colleges, and more importantly all should have their views published in our newspapers. Why should Steven Thrasher's views monopolize the press when NYC is full of folks with opinions. Here is my plan --- get rid of Thrasher and pick a different taxi driver each week to write his column.
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A.rodriguez 02/13/2011 12:46:00 AM
There goes Steven Thrasher goes again. Trashing good city schools, in last week's Village Voice (2/8). He is a drama queen- trying to stir up trouble and controversy where it doesn't exisit. Most especially in his 198/77 story. OMG, ask anyone who really knows the story and they will tell you that he just misrepresented the real situation. I WOULD NOT TRUST ANYTHING THIS STEVEN THRASHER WRITES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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isabel c.white 10/28/2010 1:27:00 AM
Unless there is a belief of a deliberate attempt at reverting to segregation why make an issue where there is none. The lawyer who complained of the difficulty he had getting into the building. This is New York, do you want people just wandering in freely into a building where your children go to school. So often we overlook the good and can't wait to create a bad situation. Are the kids learning? Are they being taught that regardless of how childish the adults act there was never any intent to hurt a child? or are tehy being taught the reason you are not being taught is because of the back door? We know children learn racism and bia, they also learn love and happenstance. Teach the children backdoor or frontdoor become the best you can be and own all the doors. The children may not learn coming through the backdoor because they have been told that only the front door matters. Taht is not true if you want to revert to history, the ntell them of all the people that came to the back and of their success. Tell them how strong the backdoor can ake you. Tell them how what the backdoor represent success. Tell the children how good they are and of our confidence in their success. The backdoor is symbolic to us and some symbols needs to be put to rest unless those who have a voice believe this was deliberate.
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isabel c.white 10/28/2010 1:27:00 AM
Unless there is a belief of a deliberate attempt at reverting to segregation why make an issue where there is none. The lawyer who complained of the difficulty he had getting into the building. This is New York, do you want people just wandering in freely into a building where your children go to school. So often we overlook the good and can't wait to create a bad situation. Are the kids learning? Are they being taught that regardless of how childish the adults act there was never any intent to hurt a child? or are tehy being taught the reason you are not being taught is because of the back door? We know children learn racism and bia, they also learn love and happenstance. Teach the children backdoor or frontdoor become the best you can be and own all the doors. The children may not learn coming through the backdoor because they have been told that only the front door matters. Taht is not true if you want to revert to history, the ntell them of all the people that came to the back and of their success. Tell them how strong the backdoor can ake you. Tell them how what the backdoor represent success. Tell the children how good they are and of our confidence in their success. The backdoor is symbolic to us and some symbols needs to be put to rest unless those who have a voice believe this was deliberate.
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catroina 10/01/2010 5:01:00 AM
if this is just so excruciating that TWO SEPERATE schools would obviously hAve TWO SEPERATE entrances,why don't you get a petition going to SWITCH THE DOORWAY/entrance ???????
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catroina 10/01/2010 5:01:00 AM
if this is just so excruciating that TWO SEPERATE schools would obviously hAve TWO SEPERATE entrances,why don't you get a petition going to SWITCH THE DOORWAY/entrance ???????
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Dave 09/22/2010 1:08:00 AM
While I agree that it would be great if every school had a perfect racial and rich/poor/middle class mixture, 40 years of school desegregation and busing was an abysmal failure. NYC depends on the taxes collected from middle class and wealthy people - and if a few gifted and selective schools keep some of them from moving to the suburbs (and taking their taxes with them) then we shouldn't be complaining. Kicking out the gifted school will do nothing to integrate P.S. 198 and help it to improve. A healthy and growing tax base on the other hand can help all schools get good technology, more teachers, smaller classes, and hopefully one day integration (as the schools improve).
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Paul L. Gardner 06/16/2010 4:58:00 PM
Kit:
Here is that article about P.S. 198!
Good seeing and kicking the old times with you again.
Carpe Diem,
Paul L. Gardner
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Nevin 03/21/2010 12:48:00 PM
The chatroulette competitior has arrived, http://vtring.com/
Seems Fun!
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Nevin 03/21/2010 12:47:00 PM
The chatroulette competitior has arrived, http://vtring.com/
Seems Fun!
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Nevin 03/21/2010 12:46:00 PM
The chatroulette competitior has arrived, http://vtring.com/
Seems Fun!
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TL 03/20/2010 1:17:00 PM
For what it is worth, here is a Google maps view if the school. The 3rd Ave entrance is a very busy street - It looks like it would be unpleasant dropping kids off there. 95th street is a side street, which looks more suited to loading and unloading kids. No obvious 95th St entrance is visible in Google maps - IF the 95th street entrance is through the double chain link gates, then it is a very nice and protected entrance.
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Third+Avenue+and+95th+Street%2F,+new+york&sll=40.78489,-73.95069&sspn=0.000738,0.001717&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=3rd+Ave+%26+E+95th+St,+New+York,+10128&ll=40.784823,-73.950225&spn=0.001519,0.003433&t=h&z=19
I'm torn over what to make of the article.
I am a product of public schools in various big cities, and I was both a very bright child and a very lousy student. Through my entire childhood, I squandered any intellectual advantage I had by doing the minimum to get by and being disruptive. When I finally, belatedly, decided to go to college to pursue a difficult science degree, I was utterly unprepared for competing with students as smart or smarter than I was. We don't do our gifted students any favors by making things easy for them.
To say that gifted programs should be canceled because ALL children should get the same benefit of an good education misses the point. Every child should get a good education, period. But a child who shows a talent for baseball should get extra training in baseball. A child who shows unusual skill in languages should get extra training there.
Is a math whiz child who is getting extra math education getting a poor education because the athletic child is getting extra training in soccer? Of course not! I am a terrible swimmer, but I can honestly say I was given a quality education in swimming. I simply had no aptitude for it.
Similarly, a quality education for a gifted student should be expected to contain more challenging content than a quality education for a more typical student. This in no way disparages the "non-gifted" student. The "gifted" label here only applies to academic prowess - there are an infinite number of other ways to be gifted which have nothing to do with school or grades.
We just don't know know where the next Einstein will be born, and it is imperative that we make sure EVERY child is tested for unusual skills, no matter what their economic or ethnic background. And when we find special skills, it is important that they be nurtured, ESPECIALLY if the child lives in poverty or has uneducated parents.
That said, there is one place I have to agree with the article: if we do our gifted children no favors by leaving them in a standard classroom where they are bored and disruptive, then we also do them no favors when we teach them that academic success is the sole measure of worth. I am now a successful adult, with children of my own, working in a challenging field with quite a few genius coworkers. And to tell you truth, some (but not most) of these brilliant guys are insufferable jerks, because they never learned to value anything but brainpower. But they're happy in their arrogance, and the public has benefited immeasurably from their research, and perhaps there was no way to build those big brains without building the overweening ego to go along with it. We may never know.
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Interested Observer 03/18/2010 10:53:00 PM
I am curious. Is the writer, Steven Thrasher, ever going to respond to any of these comments or write a follow-up article?
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Ralph 03/18/2010 3:47:00 PM
Wow. This was really fascinating. I've been in that building and noticed the same thing. It was weird how separate the two schools are. Why do kids have to be separated from such a young age?
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Samantha 03/18/2010 12:08:00 AM
And to the person who spoke so negatively about "multiculturals" (wow...): Multiculturalism is a beautiful thing. Don't let one article taint your view of the beauty of diversity. The world isn't perfect, but we're working on it. ;)
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Samantha 03/18/2010 12:04:00 AM
Most of you are missing the point, which is quite sad.
It is NOT about public vs private vs charter vs back door vs front door, etc. All of that is circumstantial and really not the point.
At the end of the day, it all boils down to the fact that we should not be having this conversation AT ALL, because every child in every school in every city should have the same access to the same quality education and resources, regardless of whether they scored higher on a test than the kid next to them.
Until then, keep placing blame and covering up festering wounds with band-aids.
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Big Bill 03/17/2010 4:52:00 PM
Reading these comments I have to say what a nasty, ugly, jealous avaricious and hateful multicultural town you live in.
Thank God we in the Midwest do not have the free floating hatred that you multiculturals do.
You pride yourselves on the number of languages and restaurants you have in your city, but you carry your old world race and ethnic hates on your backs like demons gnawing at you.
You point with self-satisfaction at all the different colors and costumes on the streets, yet would never even invite those people to a party or open your door if they showed up asking for help.
You all hate each other and you all feel so wronged. A city full of thumbsucking victims.
What a sick place to live. What an ugly, hate-filled, resentful town.
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The Original Blackman 03/14/2010 9:34:00 PM
STOP ALL THE BULLSHIT RACISM DOES EXIST ON 95TH STREET & 3RD aVE
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Almanac 03/12/2010 12:03:00 AM
After reading the comments below, I noticed there was a lot of attention paid to which was the front door at the school and which was the back. But that is not the point. The point is that two schools have to go through SEPARATE doors. They enter through these separate doors at different times, they eat lunch at different times, they have recess at different times. PS77 has twice as many teachers per student as PS198. All of this alone says volumes. But the worst of all, to me, is that PS77 even exists. These parents can afford private school, and that's where they should be sending their kids.
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John Hancock 03/11/2010 5:44:00 PM
I am not an educator but have raised three children who graduated from NYC public grammar schools and two who attended NYC middle and high schools (one attended Catholic school), so I have quite a bit of knowledge about how our city schools function. It is a problem to have two different schools, with two different constituencies occupying the same building. Upon reading this article, it was quickly apparent to me that the school was not set up to divide black from white or well-to-do from those who are not so well off, but that the building services two different constituencies and the proximity contrasts the different circumstances of those constituencies. Without detailing the procedures, policies and strategies that make one "school" unique, it is apparent that the differences can make for jealousies.
I worked in an office where one department had very rigid rules concerning the length of lunch breaks (made necessary by the type of work they performed). The department in which I worked, we had much more freedom - we did not have coverage issues. I always felt, that while there were legitimately different demands creating this situation, the fact that we all worked side-by-side made it look almost like a caste system. If we had been on different floors or buildings, it would not have been so bad.
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Patrick J. Sullivan 03/11/2010 5:14:00 PM
School co-locations may be the most controversial topic in public education in NYC right now. The same day the Village Voice article “Inside a Divided Upper East Side School” appeared, I was asked as a member of the city’s central school board, the Panel for Educational Policy (PEP), to approve the co-location of fifteen schools in Board of Education facilities throughout the City.
Unfortunately, the Voice squandered an opportunity to responsibly examine this issue, instead providing an appallingly inaccurate portrayal of the co-location of two schools, the Isador and Ida Straus School (PS 198) and the Lower Lab School (PS 77). And as a parent of two students at Lower Lab, I especially question the cited criticism from Pedro Noguera, the NYU professor and SUNY trustee.
First, I certainly agree with the Voice that Chancellor Klein’s policy for admissions to gifted and talented (G&T) programs, including Lower Lab, has been a disaster. Standardized tests introduced ostensibly for purposes of equity have resulted in less diverse classrooms and the shuttering of programs in low income neighborhoods. I voted against this policy change when the Chancellor sought PEP approval. G&T admissions decisions should have more holistic criteria and allow children to enter at higher grades by creating different entry points.
But the Voice proceeds to ignore the facts in attempting to portray Lab as a school favored with superior resources and facilities. Some of the more egregious misrepresentations:
The article is subtitled: “Whites in the front door, blacks in the back door”
The entrance intended to be the primary student entrance is used by PS 198. It opens onto Seabury Park and connects directly to the main floor with classrooms and administrative offices. The back door connects 3rd avenue with the basement. Lower Lab students enter here and climb two or three floors to their classrooms. Both schools previously used the same door but at some point the administrations thought that was too crowded and Lower Lab, as the smaller school, began using the 3rd Avenue door for the safety of the children at both schools.
“Throughout Straus, the biggest challenge of having almost 30 kids in a room seems to be controlling the chaos.” … “But the teachers in Lower Lab have a major advantage: They have an adult-to-student ratio half that of Straus's.”
Classes at PS 198 average 23 with lows of 17 and 18 in Kindergarten. There are actually only a few “close to 30”. Class sizes are dramatically smaller at PS 198 than Lower Lab. All Lab classes are at 28 except 5th grade at 25. The statistics are readily available on the DOE web site had the Voice cared to check its facts.
The DOE reports the pupil to teacher ratio at PS 198 as 12 to 1 and Lab at 18 to 1. While Lower Lab has fourteen teacher’s aides funded by the PTA, they don’t reverse the pupil teacher ratio. Teacher’s aides are no substitute for small classes. Controlling an elementary school class of 28 kids is hard and the dynamics in the classroom the Voice observed can and do happen at any school with large class sizes regardless of the race, income or ability of the students within. PS 198, by keeping its early grade class sizes small is providing an environment for learning that research has repeatedly shown is more effective and beneficial to students.
The Voice makes numerous references to inequity of resources between the two schools. One parent at PS 198 is quoted: "We know they get better stuff and more money in Lower Lab".
The per capita spending is much higher at PS 198, $2,700 more per child, reflecting the fact that city, state and federal funding formulae provide higher funding to lower income students. PTA fundraising for teaching assistants comes nowhere near to closing this gap.
Finally, the Voice trots out NYU’s Pedro Noguera to deliver the final rebuke that the Lower Lab School violates the constitution: “What we have here is really Plessy at work: separate, without even being equal—but very much separate."
Plessy vs. Ferguson, the Supreme Court ruling overturned in Brown vs. Board of Ed, permitted racially segregated schools. Noguera blithely asserts racial discrimination is perpetuated by the DOE in 2010. But let’s look at the facts. The PS 198 zone has enough students to fill roughly a third of the building. Any magnet, G&T or District 2 program placed in the remainder of the building is likely to reflect the demographics of the wider Upper East Side in contrast to the demographics of the immediate zone.
Noguera cries foul but doesn't offer solutions. How would he use this space were Lower Lab actually to close or move out? He heads the SUNY committee that authorizes charter schools, including the six granted to Eva Moskowitz's chain, the Harlem Success Academies. Perhaps that's his solution. I find it puzzling that Noguera would condemn the practice of middle class parents raising funds for their schools while championing charter schools sustained by massive unrestricted donations from hedge fund moguls and conservative foundations. It does seem an interesting coincidence that the Voice published his criticisms the same day I voted to oppose the co-location of two of his SUNY charters in Board of Ed buildings.
Ultimately school buildings belong to the people. Communities, and the Community Education Councils that represent them, should decide which education models best serve their children. Magnet schools, G&T programs and charter schools can all be options for public school families. Issues of equity and access must be examined with real evidence and focused on achieving real solutions, not with the intention to inflame and divide as the Voice has done.
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northbrooklyn 03/09/2010 5:21:00 AM
A delicately nuanced article, the description of the teachers at Strauss mirrors my own teaching experience and observation. Well done and thank you.
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Kathy 03/09/2010 4:23:00 AM
I have been teaching for twenty-one years and I am shocked at the disparities between schools. Both schools should not be separate but equal--each school should be celebrating both the diversity of those children at Strauss while continuing to lift and teach the children at the "talented" school. How can this type of a separation exist in the year 2010? I find it very sad and very distasteful. Children who are exposed to this "front door/ back door" mentality cannot help but either feel privileged and special or separate and undeserving.
How can this possibly be right just due to the fact that one group has more money than the other? This cannot make it right that they are allowed to have more privileges and more opportunities??
This situation is simply a paradox that defies understanding or logic.
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Chris 03/09/2010 2:52:00 AM
What is really shocking is the extent to which parents actually believe that their children are truly and undeniably gifted; that at four years old these little prodigies have demonstrated such superior potential, that it would be wrong, wrong! to deny them special treatment. Because after all, these children are scientifically proven (science!) to possess such remarkable talents and gifts that they should almost be thought of as a natural resource to be nurtured and groomed for their ultimate role as our global-saviors.
And here I thought eugenics had fallen from favor.
What else can we call this bizarre posturing but eugenics? Maybe it's not your old 20th-century-teutonic variety, but it's eugenics nonetheless. How else to justify the special treatment? Here's a four-year-old who did well on a test; we can't really chalk it up to effort, can we? In fact, denying the test-prep angle seems to be a major contention among these parents: these children are BORN GIFTED. They inherited superior genes, and the talents and gifts are the expression of that inheritance.
And it doesn't have to have anything to do with race. These parents aren't driven by racial or class concerns. They somehow believe that their children are actually SUPERIOR BEINGS that transcend race and class.
How bizarre. How repugnant.
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Josh 03/09/2010 12:40:00 AM
Wow! This should be front page news all over the country. What does Arne Duncan think about this?
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Lori Gilman 03/08/2010 11:24:00 PM
How dare the Village Voice even allow this article to be published!. The facts are that P.S. 198 houses children from its local neighborhood regardless of their background.Lower Lab takes gifted children also REGARDLESS of their background. The test scores don't say what color you are on them!.
My son and daughter both attened Lower Lab.We are by far not rich and walked to school every day.
We did not have tutors for the test at 4 years old.
My son's group of friends consisted of children of every color some of which English was not the first language spoken in their homes.
Front door back door are you kidding me????? Truthfully the front door is where the 198 entrance is. The back door is the Lower Lab entrance where you have to walk down stairs and then back up them to get to the office.
If the Village Voice would like to print articles they should print about when the test for the gifted schools is offered and pass it out all around town. Then maybe they would be doing something worth while
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Roslyn 03/08/2010 12:56:00 AM
I attend the University of Illinois in Springfield, IL and this article was assigned to us to read by my African American History professor. I felt compelled to leave a comment on here about this subject because it of what I have read in all of the comments. Although much of the problem has do with education and race, I think that ultimately the problem is mainly political. How is it that Mayor Bloomberg has been allowed to dictate how the education of our children is to handled, let alone that the idea of separate schools in the same building is a good idea? There are so many messages that are being sent with doing this that it is shameful. The sad part to me is that people who benefit for this separate education practice, refuse to recognize that this is a problem. I read how people have this idea that because they raised money for the talented and gifted schools;how the title one school benefited from it too. But should they have to benefit for it too, or should the mayor help in figuring out a way that ALL schools offer some of the same programs and that ALL children have the chance a wonderful, equal, and fair education.Instead of closing down schools and reversing the Brown vs. Board of Education Decision he should be working with school administrators on new methods that will help all students. At what point do we stop looking at race and economic status and realize that all of our children should be afforded the opportunity to become successful in life, and put away this idea of the "have and the have nots"? I don't know that I would say that the journalist was biased, I will say that it was something that we should all be up in arms about, the simple fact that they are sharing a building and that their are stark racial and income divides is a problem in itself.
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hUBERT hEADEN 03/07/2010 6:47:00 AM
This is just more evident that racism is alive and functioning in our schools as well as in our society. The physically slavery may have ended but we need to break the menatl chains of slavery that comes in the form of so-called equality in our children's schools.
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poppypineapple 03/05/2010 6:40:00 PM
Wow. I mean, holy cow! And I was worried about moving back to New Orleans after twenty years in NYC.
Y'all are just as racist and elitist, you just talk fancy to cover your smelly mess.
Play on, players.
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rp 03/04/2010 11:14:00 PM
The real intent of the author of this article was to create his own 'pr' campaign. Metrics, Mr. Thrasher? Why? Because the more 'responses' to this item you receive, the more 'hits' on your page are evident, the more key words open to Google and, hmmm, the more you have statistically supported the impact of your article. (Are you paid like the writers are paid of Gawker?). And you know what, Mr. Thrasher? This is exactly what this society has forced you into--valuation of your talent is only relevant in your historical metrics.
Let us take this one step further. You are aware of this and looked to write 'content' that would best resonate and provoke reaction in an audience that is thoughtful and highly responsive. This is why the NYT consistently writes about G&T programs and the NY Magazine just wrote a cover story. G&T brings interest, traffic, responses and metrics. G&T sells content. Bottom line: The metrics speak to the value of your content.
Take this a step further. This is a city full of achievers--street smart and strongly pedigreed. There is no bias. However, there are some children, who have proven by being tested, that they have an unusually high capability of cerebral reach. How do we know this? Metrics. So, a small percentage of these children have the great fortune of being accepted into G&T programs. This is metrics-based. Metrics, Mr. Thrasher...sound familiar?
Mr. Thrasher. Truly, shame on you. This acceptance system is based only on tests. There are no interviews. The Lower Lab school never 'sees' the children. Color? Unknown. So, to suggest, disgustingly, that the 'latino and blacks' enter the back door is, again, your effort to 'raise the racist' welcome flag. Necessary? Yes, if you want to build metrics for your article. So, as an anonymous writer, with nothing to benefit, I will tell you, sir, how egregiously off the mark you are.
Although the article is accurate in many ways, it only serves to cause a great divide in the many efforts the administrations of both schools make in a consistent way to enforce inclusion and respect between two different bodies under the same roof.
I ALWAYS enter the 'back door' because I prefer the welcome of the security officer there (lovely, polite, always ready with a kind word). The author of this article should honestly be ashamed of himself in his endeavor to provoke 'racist reactions' to a safety code procedure. The back door is, in effect, the FRONT door. The Lower Lap parents enter the 'back' door and, as such, need to climb staircases to reach the main level of the school (no elevators in this 'private school' within a public school.) Furthermore, Lower Lab is color blind. To infer that this is a 'wealthy' school (SUVs lined up at drop off) is quite a reach. Most parents are from middle class homes where both parents work.
Education is crucially important--scaffolding for the infrastructure of our future. To suggest that Lower Lab exists AT THE EXPENSE of PS 198 is, again to suggest something only to provoke racist comments. These two schools exist in harmony. The students are aware ONLY that the children in Lower Lab are from many different parts of the city (not at all from the apartments lining Fifth Avenue) and that the children of PS198 are from the neighborhood. Our administration uncovers new ideas to thread the two communities together consistently, as does the leadership of PS198.
Because PS198 has the bulk of the school space, my child goes without a library, a Spanish teacher who pushes her lessons on a trolley to each classroom and a computer teacher who is a traveling teacher as well.
Mr. Thrasher? Bravo for the PR effort. I just increased your 'stickiness', your 'total responses' by one and your key word possibility. I hope this bodes well for your advertising revenue potential and for your CV.
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Bijou 03/03/2010 11:58:00 PM
I was a parent at Lower Lab for 12 years. During that time, PS 198 went from being a Title 1 school with very small class sizes to a much better elementary school that became more and more popular so that class sizes rose. At the same time, the DOE decided to change the admissions criteria for gifted and talented programs, which resulted in the exact opposite result they claimed they wanted. Whereas before, Lower Lab originally did not use test scores- They relied on a group observation and a written evaluation that is part of the Stanford-Binet. IF they had used the scores, my older daughter would not have been accepted. Now, the decision of who gets into Lab is not made by the Administration. It is made at Central. Race and gender do not factor into the decision at all- It is score, plain and simple. This is not Lower Lab's fault or the fault of any G&T program out there. The article and the editor's comments are so incredibly vitriolic against anything about Lower Lab, it ends up coming off as a kind of vendetta against an excellent school. As has been said already in the comments, the backdoor/frontdoor issue is absurd- I was always told that the front entrance (and for years it was the only entrance that had a security guard, which is where the guard is stationed) was on 95th between Lex and Third. I believe that to this day.
I would also say that the PTA raised a lot of money and got grants that paid for air conditioning for the entire school, not just PS 77. We got a grant (ironically from Eva Moskowitz, the queen of the charters and a very dangerous woman at this point in time) to redo the school playground- for all students. There are plenty of examples, large and small of the funds one school raised being used to improve the facilities for both PS 198 and 77. I could go on and on in defense of a school I love but the major point I want to make is that there are plenty of schools in this city that share space. Oftentimes, one is a gifted and talented program. Yet, it seems as if the Lab/PS 198 situation is the only one that ever gets any play. I used to cringe at the crap that was written on Urban Baby.com- and yet, the Village Voice article was even worse and even more untrue.
The real story that should be written is about this new impetus to put charter schools into public school buildings. Your reporter (well, actually another reporter, since Mr.Thrasher has proven himself to be entirely partial and unable to write without an agenda), should go up to Harlem and the Bronx where public schools are fighting the growing encroachment of fancy charter schools into their buildings. I am now active in District 3 and every day, some charter school (and it is usually one of Eva's) is taking away facilities, resources and space from a school it "shares" space with. Talk about not working together. Parents in these schools are shocked at the arrogance and entitlement that the charters are exhibiting as they take over classrooms, libraries, auditoriums and gyms. So your reporter missed the boat. The real story is about charter schools coming in and destroying existing public schools. And charters are able to weed out "problem" kids with special needs or language issues. And let's not even talk about funding disparities. You contrast the two PTAs at Lab and PS 198 (And I was on very good terms with PA pres. of 198 when I was PTA pres. We spoke often about issues that affected both our schools). Well, many PTAs in Harlem barely function, much less fundraise while the charters are funded to the hilt by big money people who think that giving money to a charter is the new hot cause. For your "newspaper" to write such a biased article while all of this is going on further uptown is a disgrace.
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Ellen 03/03/2010 10:15:00 PM
I am the parent of a Lab graduate. He was not prepped for the test, but did get in. The solution is to have G/T programs available in all neighborhoods for all children, but what can be done to educate parents around the city to make sure they take advantage of available resources? As a Lab parent, I was proud that we were able to raise money for extras NOT provided by the B of E (and by the way, PS 198 got a lot of those extras for free by virtue of being a Title I school). We did not demand that every family give, and many did not, but their children benefitted just the same. I will never apologize for having figured out how to get my child into gifted education, which is what he clearly needed (and he's in a specialized high school now). An understimulated gifted child can be as much a problem as a child who needs other support; we forget that there are special needs at both ends of the IQ spectrum.
Nowhere did it state in the article that Lab has special needs classes as well, and that those children and their families are part of the Lab community. They get mainstreamed when possible, and they are part of school ceremonies, celebration and graduation. No one points them out or stigmatizes them.
And PS: the Lab parents HATE the 3rd Ave. entrance because it's on a very busy street. That's where the buses let out, but truth be told, we would have preferred using the 95th St. entrance that goes through the playground because it's safer and closer to the subway. If one's child takes the subway to school, as mine did, it's another 5 minute walk from the subway to the Lab entrance. Back door? I don't think so. If the author wishes to inflame us, and I believe he did, then by all means, call it the back door. It is really the better door.
And no, the Lab kids couldn't use the Strauss library either. Or anything else they got from their Title I status.
And I do remember some 198 kids transferring into Lab.
There will always be people who think they are getting the short end of the stick. But in a meritocracy, one has to show merit. Let's improve parent education, so that parents of pre-school aged children are fully aware of educational opportunities that their bright and gifted children can receive. That is something the City ought to do more of. And of course, let's make all schools better, for all children. But make no mistake, there will always be gifted children, and they should receive gifted education.
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m.v. 03/03/2010 7:58:00 PM
This article is supposed to be about "blacks & whites" right? meanwhile 47% of the students you so neatly categorize as "black" come from a people who come in many shades. As a Latina I am tired of being ping ponged between being labeled black or white by people who have no problem putting themselves into one or the other of those slots whenever they see fit. I hope I am speaking for most Latinos out there light skinned or dark we just want to be recognized for what we are not tossed between these two labels that will continue to reinforce racism instead of celebrating diversity.
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bavb 03/02/2010 7:31:00 PM
reading the article plus comments it becomes painfully clear that this country will NEVER be able to rise above race/class problems. oh well. Maybe if we just keep killing the messengers (mr. thrasher, ironic?) we can fool ourselves into thinking we are having a dialogue or doing something to add justice and fairness to the system.
also, it's sometimes refreshing to get "an outsiders" perspective and the fact the the separate school entrances reminds some of the separate entrances of segregation is not something to be so easily dismissed.
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Larry Love 03/02/2010 2:08:00 AM
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gideon 02/24/2010 7:02:07 AM
I can't believe this article says "There are those who talk because they're poor students and can't sit still in a classroom." I never knew poverty causes children to be disruptive students. This kind of attitude perpetuates the atmosphere in which upper class parents don't want to integrate their schools for fear of the poor kids disrupting their own child's education. The fact is poverty is no excuse for disruptive behavior and there are plenty of examples of well-behaved poor children who rise to the expectations of their parents and teachers.
lol, dummie, poor as in a bad undisciplined student not poor as in economically poor...
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Larry Love 03/02/2010 2:06:00 AM
Poster Lon Singer you could not have missed the point more even if it had hit you right in the face. The point is these are little kids who already have a mountain against them from the get, entering in through the back of the building and not even seeing these other kids sets a message from a very early onset that they are less and inferior. This can't be what people like Bloomberg had in mind.
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Paul Gardner 03/01/2010 3:48:00 PM
Ken:
Great article.
Carpe Diem,
PLG
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Lon Singer 03/01/2010 5:27:00 AM
That is one of the most laughably shabby pieces of alleged journalism I have read in a long time! The black and brown kids go in the back door!! The back door!!! They use the back door!!!! Not the front door!!!!!
Suppose the two schools reverse door usage tomorrow? They are separate schools in service of very different populations. If the writer's point is that the talented and gifted children at the Lower Lab School and their devoted parents deserve a building of their own for their remarkable accomplishments with limited resources--I could not agree more.
Otherwise, what is the point? The children are selected by completely objective tests of intelligence. In fact, subjective elements were eliminated from the selection process several years ago at the insistence of those who thought a lack of fair play was excluding minorities. Now that all subjectivity has been eliminated, the well-meaning educators at schools like the Lower Lab cannot even undertake to diversify them, and ironically minority enrollment has been dramatically reduced. Whether the subject is students or the sort of "journalists" who earn a pittance writing for the sort of "newspaper" for which there is not enough demand to charge a newsstand price, a simple truth remains--THOSE OF LEAST MERIT FARE BADLY IN A MERITOCRACY!
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voodooeconomix 03/01/2010 5:17:00 AM
Outrageous. While I understand parents reluctance to involve their families in controversy, It's not your school. It's a public institution receiving federal funding and is in the interest of all taxpayers. If there are civil rights issues involved here, which this article suggests, it's not your right to keep interested federal taxpayers from information involving public institutions any more than when Southern segregationists wanted to keep out agitating Northerners "meddling" in local matters. It is not your school. Go to a private school if you don't like it.
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Elizabeth Weiss-Bernarducci 03/01/2010 3:02:00 AM
Tony Ortega! You went to Columbia with my good friend Mike Hon and you know my husband Greg Bernarducci! Our daughter goes to PS 77. Tony O! Mike's friend! Now I KNOW not to take you seriously. Your sarcastic reputation proceeds you. Keep your nose, and your staff's noses out of our school. Schools are serious business for ALL parents and kids at PS 198 and PS 77. We care about our children, over crowded schools, limited money and resources. Say what you want about me as a PS 77 parent, and you will, but "journalism" like Thrasher's is part of the problem, not the solution to a deeply flawed public school system.
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Sybil Ward 02/27/2010 8:48:00 PM
This has been going on since 1973. My son went to PS 6 starting in the last semester of the 1st grade.
His father and I saw that he needed help with his concentration. I was told about a gifted program at PS6
My initial study of gifted children however, does not match up with the criteria of the public school system
My son was tested by 3 specialist. One Dr. Christine Segan and Professor Donahue of NYU
Both of them said the same thing about gifted criteria in the NYPS
it is bogus. Maria Montessori methods are not taught.
So what does one do? My son went to ps6 and graduate at age 11 out of the 6th grade
He was tested at an IQ of over 165 at age 9 and 12
Gifted children are difficult to teach and need a great deal of mental stimulation.
We were fortunate enough to be able to assist our son.
As black parents in this city we were all to aware of the under current of racism.
As middle class parents who lived in Harkem , we were able to watch our son bridge the gap - in a culutre that tends to label us all in one group.
He too was clever enough to stride bewtween the two worlds
These schools will always exist. Money and time afford them the growth to do so.
Not they should not be seperated as they are in this school.
Thankfully PS6 was not so blantant with their gifted program.
This school and all of its principals should be brought to task for this type of pandering.
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Rick 02/27/2010 4:57:00 PM
Will, what's wrong with you? I am a journalist and the part that struck me about the story was not the back door/front door symbolism or the real or imagined "plant." What struck me was the disparity that the author allows you to visualize simply by telling you what he saw. That kind of disparity in a public school should make you angry. From the storyteller's point of view, the fact that those two schools are housed in the same building and the front door/back door scenario just added to the conflict/symbolism. But what I came away with was compassion for the teachers at 198 and a sick feeling that a privileged class will always exist. With or without talent or intelligence that privileged class will thrive and the group of people that are not privileged will struggle (though often will thrive despite obstacles). That should also be a problem for you. The teachers that used to work at Lab spelled it out clearly--a divide exists and its unfair and there is something that can be done about it. This should be a wake up call.
By making subtle threats--(the Village Voice's corporate headquarters out West)--you're really illustrating the kind of behavior that this article lays out clearly. You will bully your way into getting what you want--whether it's a segrgated school or a journalist to shut up.
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Will 02/26/2010 10:33:00 PM
Tony I think you can see that it violates basic journalistic principles to quote someone—"Crazy!"—without mentioning that he has a long-standing ax to grind on this very topic. If Stevens didn't encounter Thrasher at the school by chance, then it seems safe to assume Thrasher tracked him down precisely because of his public positions. Search Stevens on google and you get pages of results with a VERY consistent theme. Perhaps Thrasher found him when, in reporting this story, he saw Stevens quoted in this NY Mag story: http://nymag.com/news/features/31272/ calling NEST (another G&T school) "an allegory". You or your writer kept information from your readers because it would have weakened the quote and cast doubt on Stevens' credibility. And that, TonyO, is shabby journalism--only one example among many in this piece. Again, I'm with you on much of the basic message about the system's many failings, but hackery and concealment only erode your ability to be taken seriously.
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PS 198 Parent 02/26/2010 9:57:00 PM
I want to thank the two most recent 198 teachers comments. This is why I am proud and happy my child attends 198.
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parent 02/26/2010 9:55:00 PM
There is an unfortunate attitude conveyed by certain parents and students of 77 toward the kids of 198 (like a fear of them using the bathrooms at the same time!) but I look at it as a reflection of societal attitudes, not a 198/77 problem or even a g/t problem. Ignorant people are everywhere. This building environment is a microcosm. But like society, it's not nearly the majority of people who act/think in this manner.
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D2 parent 02/26/2010 8:35:00 PM
As a resident of the 198/77 area, and the parent of a public school child who has navigated through the system, and toured both 77 and 198 this article seemed so full of "Urban Baby Mythology" about both schools that I find it hard to imagine Mr. Thrasher began this endeavor with any intention other than writing a biased, inciteful article. The socio-economic divide is not a 77-198 thing, but a G&T-gen ed thing, which predates the standardized OLSAT entrance exam which is only 2 or 3 years old (my 3rd grader was ushered into a room with 6 other children and asked to identify shapes and letters as an assesment). Had Mr Thrasher visited G&T classes in other District 2 schools he might have found a similar have/have not divide, and also found that the parents of the G&T students were the majority of the PA body, and doind the majority of fundraising. He would have also found children in G&T classes who believed they were smarter and better than their gen-ed peers by virtue of being "gifted and talented" (itself a misnomer- the children in g&t programs by and large are neither gifted or talented, and the curriculum is not advanced to a higher grade level as some believe).
As for the two door policy, this too is not a 77/198 thing, but a dual school thing. Other buildings housing 2 or more schools have different entrances, and staggered arrival/dismissal times. At PS158 which also houses a middle school within it's facility, the schools have different entrances. Is it ageist that the middle schoolers use a side door, or just more sensible for each school to have it's own dedicated entrance?
As for the proposed G&T class in 198, it will not be for students zoned for 198, the G&T program does not prioritize on anything other than OLSAT scores and district. It will just add another classroom to the district for students who score well on the OLSAT, who will in all likelihood feel superior and special compared to their gen-ed peers- though they too will enter through the 198 "back" door.
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Teacher 02/26/2010 8:32:00 PM
Can we please drop this whole front-door, back-door issue. There are two "main" entrances. One on 3rd Avenue. One on 95th street. Lab School primarily uses the one on 3rd Avenue because their students gather in the auditorium for pick up each morning, which, guess what? It's right at the 3rd Avenue entrance. Additionally, most of their classrooms are on that side of the building. P.S. 198 students don't use the "back door". They enter at 95th street, a much more colorful and inviting entrance anyway, because that's where their main office is and most of their classrooms are on that side of the building. If Mr. Thrasher, or any one else, is told to go to the "back" entrance, it's just the wrong choice of words by security, nothing more. The school doesn't want random people walking through halls and up several staircases in the middle of the school day. It's a safety issue. If he volunteered at 198, he should enter on that side to avoid having people wandering the halls. Although there are many important issues in the article, some true and some exaggerated, the door issue is not one, but is the sexy way of making this catchy to the reader. We're not talking water fountains here or restaurants. The entrances are both attractive, they make sense, and are both considered "main" entrances. Walk by the school and don't be swayed by catchy wording.
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Teacher 02/26/2010 8:08:00 PM
I am a teacher at P.S. 198. While Mr. Thrasher's article has some truths, there is also incorrect information. Our entrance is on the side of the building near our office, P.S. 77's entrance is nearest their office. We are two schools, we have two separate staff bulletin boards. These are commom sense issues, NOT racism! Lack of space is a problem in our building. Previous commentors complain that P.S. 77 does not have a library, however, P.S. 77 does have an art room and a science room. P.S. 198 does not have an art, music or proper science room. Yes, we are supposed to have Gifted & Talented classes in the fall, but where will we fit them?! Will our classes become even MORE overcrowded? I am offended by the previous commentors who attacked our adminstration. Our entire staff works diligently to help our kids succeed! My colleagues and I are dedicated to our students, reagrdless of the color of their skin.
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j.nedd 02/26/2010 7:21:00 PM
We are going to see more of this as charter schools are given parts of existing schools thus dividing the children in schools into the "haves and havenots". It is not only about money, what too many children in NYC lack are advocates.
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interested observer 02/26/2010 6:57:00 PM
It seems pretty clear here that this reporter went in with an agenda and wrote an article to meet that agenda. He even conspired with a stooge whose only real purpose was to be used as a central figure. A person that has no real reason for being at this school other than seeing his name in the newspaper. While some of you may commend an editor for defending his reporter, shouldn't the Voice hire a Ombudsmen like the Times did years ago when they realized their reporting standards were declining, and their "facts" werent always facts?
It is pretty clear that Voice used inaccurate data, set up a confrontation, interviewed minors without permission, etc. It is one thing to have a liberal agenda, it is another to be Racist and then make up a story to support your views
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I USED TO WORK @ LOWER LAB 02/26/2010 3:48:00 PM
I used worked @ Lower Lab (PS 77) & the Afterschool. PS 77 did everything possible to distance themselves from 198. A HUGE part of the reason why their test scores are so high is because they have staff (Teacher's Assistance) & parent volunteers partnered w the children who "may not do so good" to help "guide" them towards the right answers. the BIGGEST insult to 198 is children transferred from 198 to Lower Lab are placed into Special Ed.
The students of 77 are trained so well into identifying people by race that by 3rd grade they're already calling the few ethnic students "n..ger" to which the teachers do not address. If it is addressed the targeted student is told to "ignore it"
The students of 77 do have behavior issues-its not peaches & cream working with them. Its displayed differently. While 198 students chatter & play around 77 students make remarks to teachers that are not age appropriate, play around, fight, curse
and often just don't follow instruction.
During the afterschool the same teachers of 77 who are all smiles during the day time are now yelling @ the afterschool groups referring to them as "animals".
None of the african-american students of 77 can look at the teachers and see a familiar face because there aren't any african-american teachers.
This issue is deeper than anyone knows, think about the damage to the children. The children of 198 are clearly exposed to racism daily! For the "adults" to start attacking each other about grammar is just another way of trying to sweep the issue under the carpet. I know of several students from 198 smarter than those of 77, lived in the area and for some reason did not get excepted into 77. What I quickly learned about 77 its not just grades that gets you in...money plays a large role! Teacher's "Christmas Gifts" can easily be over $1,000. How can any child of either school excel when you are being taught that no matter what you can only make it but so far because of your race?
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myoldjob 02/26/2010 10:06:00 AM
I used to work in that school building as one of the most neutral parties possible, I was the afterschool director. It was my job to help to mend the fractures that the day school created in the afternoon hours. Although there are quite a few things that I do not agree with in this article, I can say that the overall sentiment was captured and portrayed very well, this is a segregated environment and it adversely effects the children within its halls. As I read the comments I chuckle at the "outrage" that many of these parents express- they are the same ones that make sure that their children never ever have to go through what the students of PS 198 do. This is a case of class, socioeconomics, privilege, and know-how. I have seen horrible discrimination in that school building by teachers to teachers, teachers to students, parents to parents, parents to students, and administration to parents and students. i have heard the cries of children who were made to feel inferior. I have heard the cheers of students who somehow felt superior just because of their place at 77. i have seen families divided as one sibling attends the Lab and the other Strauss. For the person who shouted about h77 not having a library, let us not compare it to the auction prize of a Nobu chef preparing a private meal for you and your guests. With proceeds fromthat you can pay a person to come in three times a week to serve as a librarian. I am not sure how the author obtained entrance to the schools and under what pretense he walked the halls observing and interviewing. What i do know is that he hit quite a few things dead on and the parents from 77 who are crying foul now are not being honest with themselves or readers!
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Pained 02/26/2010 10:03:00 AM
Ouch. That was just aweful, full of factual errors,flagrantly biased, and, most unfortunate of all, embedded in a very simplistic context. I applaud all the parents at Lab and 198 who who took the time to correct some of the mistakes and fill in some of the gaps. The shame is that the core issues merit serious discussion. What we got instead is inflamation.
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Tony O 02/26/2010 8:15:00 AM
The bullshit is getting pretty thick here. (Will, try to read what I wrote earlier again a little more carefully: I said that Thrasher had spoken with Stevens, along with many others. Where did I say they went to the door together?) I'll just address "PS 198 Parent," who has been patient; the other, silly stuff I'll ignore. PS 198, your question about us contributing something to school comes off disingenuous and strange. I'm sure plenty will agree that we've already done enough, thank you very much. As for Mr. Thrasher's method: it should be very clear from the nature of quotes from adults in the story, each was quite aware that they were speaking with a Voice journalist. Administrators and educators at PS 198 were also well aware that he was a Voice journalist, and all of his communications with them were on his Voice e-mail account. The administration was generous enough to allow him access to classes as a volunteer. Subsequently, he told administrators that he planned to write about his experiences, and none of them objected. For those who wish that instead we'd been given some kind of cleaned-up, official tour, I can only say, go read the dailies.
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lenni 02/26/2010 8:04:00 AM
I also meant to ask if you or Steven have children. If so and if they're school-aged, where do they go?
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lennie 02/26/2010 7:51:00 AM
Tony,
I'm curious where Steven and you went to school, both in grammar, high school and college.
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Will 02/26/2010 7:03:00 AM
And PS 198 parent wondering about a straight answer as to whether Thrasher came in as a journalist or posing as a volunteer teacher: good question! (You're showing up just fine on my computer.)
TonyO?
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Will 02/26/2010 6:07:00 AM
Your explanation for Mr Stevens strikes me as pretty unlikely, TonyO. That the Village Voice writer might show up at the "back door" security desk at exactly the same time as a die-hard (apparently!) activist on this topic is one hell of a coincidence. I imagine you're right about now wondering whether your (conspicuously absent in his own defense) writer put one over on you. Is it an accident Mr. Stevens is the kicker to the lede? Did Thrasher explain how he and Mr. Stevens came to be in the same place at the same time? Was there some sort of spontaneous gathering of anti-Lab sentiment that day at the desk? Perhaps your centi-millionaire corporate overlords out West could devote some of their resources to clearing up the matter.
And for the poster who wondered whether calling for TonyO's head is appropriate--I'm not calling for it, unless it emerges that TonyO knowingly concealed a bogus source in his paper's story. We journalists are scum, but we pretend to some standards.
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Isabel 02/26/2010 5:45:00 AM
The real issue Tony is that, yes, racism, classism, sexism, elitism, and homophobia are inherent/blatant in educational institutions. And in the world, period. No one should argue against that. The first day of kindergarten, we all (PS 198 and PS 77 students and parents) lined up outside the school. I was naive and thought, Wow the system really works--that OLSATS test really reached all students. As we walked into the door, however, the (predominantly) white and Asian children went to the right side of the building and the rest (the majority of the minorities) went to the left. I was heartsick. The DOE has struck again, I thought. There it is, and good for you for bringing this to the public's attention. Your intentions were good. However, I would argue that your tendentious reporting created more tension between classes and races, an "us" verses "them" mentality that scarcely existed, if at all (see PS198 parents' comments here). Parents from both schools are good, high-minded, intelligent people who want the best for our children and who should work together to fight the failures of the system. But to turn the fight on the Lower Lab School is missing the "real issue." You make it sound as if the LL parents and administration belong to a secret neo-Nazi-KKK organization with hidden agendas. 198 should have separate bathrooms and water fountains and should sit at the back of the bus. We come as a cult in our taxis and nice cars to keep the minorities in their place. It is you who have poisoned and polarized the atmosphere now, so that perhaps those of us from all walks of life, from both sides of the school who have been working tirelessly to change a benighted system, now have more tension to surmount...thanks for that. To sound like a bumper sticker, realization and dialogue are crucial. That is how we truly educate. Hostile polarization is what we have too often known -- a historical cliche by now that gets us nowhere. Your article foments the same ole sad dialogue good people have been fighting against. Educate yourself.
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PS 198 Parent and PA Officer 02/26/2010 5:27:00 AM
I feel like my comments must not be showing up on all computers, even though I do see them on mine. As a 198 parent I want to know - did he go in as a volunteer teacher or as a journalist writing an article and the teachers and students he described knew this - or did they think he was a volunteer teacher? And if you want to help the school please email ps198pa@gmail.com and maybe we can come up with some ideas. We have a lot of good ones already and are working on them and proud of what we are doing but will certainly not turn away genuine offers of help. So Tony O or Mr. Ortega please respond to my comments or email me at the PA email address. Thank you.
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Dan 02/26/2010 5:26:00 AM
The article places too much emphasis on the issues of race and inflames emotions rather than point out the most important citiwide problem of overcrowding, resource differentials and less preparedness of some children for school. Most low income children in New York city and the US generally are not prepared for school or perform below grade levels due mainly to parents' low educational attainments and hence their lack of the skills to work with the children at home and/or lack of courage or finances to get tutoring help for the children or themselves. I am originally from Ghana and was the first in my family to go to high school, college and graduate school. I attended elementary school in makeshift structures but my illiterate father was very serious about education. With a background in real estate, social planning and policy and economic development, I built after school centers with libraries and computers to provide tutoring and homework assistance, recreation, art and craft and summer programs for elemntary and junior high school children living in my company's low income housing developments in the tough Brooklyn neighborhoods of Brownsville, East New York and Oceanhill. I paid great attention to the education and development of my daughter who was born the same year I started working in New York. And for the next 15 years I worked very hard to encourage parents to get involved in their children's education and development but they ignored me. In the end much of our efforts at helping their children came to nothing because most of the parents themselves were very disfunctional and abusive and did not even know how to properly interact and communicate with their children. The parents' behaviors and attitude infected their children most of whom were performing far below their grade levels. The children developed serious anti-social behaviors and most of them dropped out of school, got involved in serious crimes and went to jail. Predictably, my work with my daughter who attended public schools including shared facilities in Queens has paid off. So I am sure that those white parents are also working hard to provide a better future for their children. They are not the ones to blame but the politicians and the bureacrats at the DOE. The sad story is that in most black communities so-called leaders are more concerned about their pockets than the communities they pretend to serve so they steal money and other resources that are entrusted in their care for the benefit of foster children or their communities. They turn round playing God in the lifes of people and "sucking it to them" And that my friends, is exactly what is happening in most of the black communities in New York City and the US.
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rick 02/26/2010 5:25:00 AM
parents of the lab school, you look worse than the article made you look with your comments. now you're calling for the editor's job? for what? because he sent a reporter in to report on what he saw? for argument's sake, let's say he went in undercover--this is not the Food Lion's case, it's a damn public school! Everything done in a public school should be for public consumption. What--would you have put on your best behavior if you knew? Address the point here--that this public school is operating like a private one, above the law, segregating and defeating the purpose of a public school.
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EllenBK 02/26/2010 4:48:00 AM
This is disgusting. Sullivan should be ashamed...
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Tony O 02/26/2010 4:32:00 AM
Oh brother. I haven't addressed the question about Stevens because it's so stupid. Stevens was one of many people that Mr. Thrasher talked to, and he only very briefly appears simply because he, too, was asked to walk around the building (before he was let in). Mr. Thrasher put this story together on his own by going to the building and writing down what he saw. Once again, this noise is just meant to distract from the real issues.
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lenni 02/26/2010 4:14:00 AM
While I appreciate the subject is complex, I think this article is sensationalistic though it does bring up some interesting points. My child qualified for g/t. While she wasn't prepped, she did receive a 99. I had never planned on sending her to a g/t school but was curious how she'd do on a test. (Hey, it was free.) Then it turned out her school was piloting a g/t program the following year, so she continued going to her school, except in a g/t class. It's nothing like lower lab. It's just a different class. It's a pretty diverse class. It's also in a Title I school. Same PTA. Lunch together. Etc. Etc.
I think what is important in all the g/t classes and/or schools is that they become more flexible. While it might be good for some kids to be tested early--especially girls as I think they are socialized to "dumb" down in later grades--allow room for more kids to join the classes at a later grade for those that might qualify then. My daughter will have to qualify again for whatever is available to her in middle school, so it doesn't operate like NEST, Hunter or other such schools. But she is able to stay in the g/t class at this school through fifth grade.
I'm not sure what the answer is. Not call it gifted and talented? Allow kids to skip a grade if they're ready. (I'd much rather my daughter be in 2nd grade than in the 1st grade g/t class.) But they don't allow this in New York State. I don't think the answer is to eliminate them either. I think it's a shame parents prep their children and that there is a market for it.
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Will 02/26/2010 4:07:00 AM
TonyO,
Actually, I did address the disparities--there are plenty, systemwide, and guilty liberal that i am, i deplore them. is that a faultm, that i care? as for the administrations decision not to speak to the Voice, if true as stated, that would be a mistake, as you and i both know that just frees you to write whatever you like. finally, while i too applaud you for wading into the boards here, i don't see you responding to the charge that Mr. Stevens was a plant/shill. If true, TonyO, and you knew it as you went to press, that, in my opinion, should cost you your job. And I'd be happy to argue so publicly. So, was he? Tony?
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ericka 02/26/2010 3:23:00 AM
i feel for the teachers at strauss and the kids, inevitably, will probably do better socially and intellectually, than the kids at Lab, despite beliefs otherwise. they sound like normal children--funny, resilient, and smart. they are learning more about arrogance and inequities than any book can teach. it so typical for parents of Lab to respond in nitpicking fashion about methods used to report this story--as the editor mentioned--is that the issue here? or is it that all your dirt was exposed?
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PS 198 Parent and PA Officer 02/26/2010 3:22:00 AM
Mr. Ortega how come you have not responded to any of my points? They are not disingenuous and I want your opinion on them. Help 198 don't just start a fight.
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Tony O 02/26/2010 3:15:00 AM
Thanks, Matty B. But as you can see, it does little good when the disingenuous are determined to distract attention from the real issues here. The separate entrances, while certainly dramatic, was only a small part of what Mr. Thrasher spells out in so much great detail here: the heroic, and daunting challenge faced by teachers every day in a system determined to further separate out the things that make a public school successful.
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Matty B 02/26/2010 2:45:00 AM
Tony, you're the only professional newspaper editor I know of who goes waist-deep in the muck to duke it out with hostile commenters. Just thought I'd interrupt the brawl to commend you on that.
By the way, it's called a masthead, people.
And now back to the showdown!
*rings bell*
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PS77 Parent 02/26/2010 2:41:00 AM
Regular readers are familiar with your name so you feel that it is ok to become part of your biased story rather than an objective editor? You have an obligation to every reader, regular or not, to disclose who you are when you are commenting on the story and trying to respond to comments (which you did by disparaging the PTA co-president). You are a fraud as is Mr. Thrasher who certainly did not reveal he was a Village Voice reporter doing a story on 198/77. Moreover, what is the real issue here? That PS198 gets $2700 more per student per year than one of the highest performing elementary schools in the city? That's $1.5 million. Which is more than the Lab School PTA could ever raise in a year. Or is the issue, as you make the article to be, that the students use separate entrances? I am sure every Lab parent would trade the 3rd Avenue entrance for the courtyard entrance. But if that happened, you'd probably jump up and down screaming racism.
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PS 198 Parent 02/26/2010 2:10:00 AM
Mr. Ortega. I don't believe the teachers and students Mr. Thrasher interacted with knew who he was at the time. They thought that he was a volunteer teacher, not someone writing an article about the schools. I don't think anyone benefited from this misguided attempt at exposing problems in the Public School system.
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Edmund 02/26/2010 2:04:00 AM
Tony,
Since you're in a disclosive mood, how about clarifying your relationship with Granville Leo Stevens, you were somewhat silent on that point in your last post. Also while you are at it, why don't you declare your views on G&T programs in general. Would you be ok with Lab if it was in its own building like Anderson? Should we expect your next piece to be about Anderson or maybe Granville wants you to return to the middle schools like NEST or Upper Lab. Come on, its the age of transparancy, we have a right to know.
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Tony O 02/26/2010 1:45:00 AM
Regular readers are familiar with my name, PS77 Parent, and there was never an intent to misrepresent who I am. As for our reporter, Mr. Thrasher, he was very explicit about who he was when he visited the school. But all of this is just more noise intended to distract from the real issues here. Whether you like our methods or not, we've brought to readers the very real inequalities at 198/77, and the more Lower Lab parents cry and moan about it, the more they make themselves look more at fault -- a point our story never made, by the way. Tony Ortega, Editor, Village Voice
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Reader 02/26/2010 1:32:00 AM
I understand that the parents are saying that they're just trying to get the best education they can get for their kids.
The parents are aware of the apparent disparities, of the caste system, and no one likes the "you're gifted, you're not" situation.
Well, is it just easier to maintain the status quo?
At least the Village Voice is raising this super sensitive subject, knowing that they will get shot from all kind of angles. It's time to wake up, parents.
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Park 02/26/2010 1:23:00 AM
This is a shame. Rich families in this city can benefit all schools and cause of education by simply getting rid of all talented/gifted programs. This is 2010. Yet our churches and our schools are still so clearly segregated. A terrible shame.
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PS77 Parent 02/26/2010 1:21:00 AM
So now we see how the Village Voice really operates--and it is not journalism. Reporters do not pretend to be someone they are not, they don't send shills into the school to try and beef up their story. And editors do not comment on their own story and belittle the PTA president without revealing who they are. I cannot believe that "Tony O" made comments on the story twice before revealing that he was in fact the editor in chief of the Voice in his third comment. What a joke.
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Edmund 02/26/2010 12:16:00 AM
Dear Mr. Ortega,
In the interest of full disclosure and the origins of this story, why don't you fully disclose who Granville Leo Stevens is. We see him mentioned in passing in the opening of Mr. Thrasher's highly biased piece. So for the rest of you out there here is the real story. Mr. Stevens is a community activist and agitator. He is vehemently against NYC's G&T programs and he has regularly given his views all over the City, including at the PS 198/77 building. He DOES NOT HAVE ANY CHILDREN IN THIS SCHOOL. In fact, he lives in Stuy town on the east side of Manhattan and his daughter attends either middle or high school. Mr. Granville had no legitimate business at the school, he went there as a set up. He knows exactly where the entrance for PS 198 is and the message he received is the same one a PS 77 parent would have received if they tried to enter through the doors by the school yard. How come Mr. Thrasher didn't explain why a man with no children attending that particular public school was seeking to gain access? Did Mr. Granville ever gain access to the building that day and if so, whom did he come to see - Mr. Thrasher perhaps? Overcrowding and allocation of resources in the NYC public schools are serious matters that warrant serious journalistic coverage and great public attention. It would be nice if the VV cared more about these serious issues for our children rather than secretly promoting the agenda and views of one Granville Leo Stevens.
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Judy 02/26/2010 12:12:00 AM
If there are any parents of students at Straus School who are offended by the practices of using a back door, having their kids treated inferiorly, they can call up the NYCLU at 212-607-3300. If there are going to be more charter schools in public schools, NO ONE should be told to use the back(black) door!!! That's why they have different starting times.
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Tony O 02/26/2010 12:06:00 AM
In fact, Will, as we pointed out in the story, the LL administration did resist our efforts and refused to answer any of our questions about the school.
We were left with what Mr. Thrasher saw -- first hand -- that was not administration spin or thought control by Lower Lab parents: that is, clear inequalities, which even your lengthy, dripping-with-liberal-guilt response failed to address.
I'm sure you're happy that your child at Lower Lab is getting a good education. Whether the mostly Latino and black children of PS 198 are getting one is another question entirely, and the only purpose of this report.
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Tara Ryan 02/25/2010 11:54:00 PM
There is no front door/back door. The Third Avenue entrance is the front door for PS77 and the 95th Street/Lexington Avenue entrance is the front door for PS198. They are two schools within one overcrowded building that houses almost 900 students (my prior post said about 850 but its more). 900 elementary aged students should not enter and exit out of one entrance. To address Tony O's comment that the SSA officer (who is also black and was part of the decision making process on the entrance policy) told Mr. Thrasher to "go around back"; from where that SSA officer sits (facing Third Avenue), the 95th Street/Lexington Avenue entrance is the back to her. Unless the Third Avenue entrance is locked, any visitor to PS77 is supposed to enter through the Third Avenue entrance and any visitor to PS198 is supposed to enter through the 95th Street entrance. I understand the Voice is trying to make a point but the way you've gone about it completely detracts from that point.
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Will 02/25/2010 11:20:00 PM
As a PS 77 parent, a journalist, and a raging liberal, I found this a classic example of cheap, drive-by reporting with the same tired old VV simplicities that have been sucking the paper down the tubes for years. I find it almost laughable that VV editor Tony Ortega would weigh in to tell us "Mr. Thrasher -- a black man, by the way -- approached the front door to go to PS 198, he was instructed by the SSA to 'go around back.' That's the language used, and the reality for the mostly Latino and black children of PS 198."
Is that right, Tony? Did you personally go up to PS77 and spend some time experiencing the atmosphere? Did you do it under an assumed identity, as your Junior Woodstein did? Were you, too, astonished at the endless line of Bentleys pulling up the sidewalk? Did you see, during your visit, that the back door is really the front? Did you hear every white person being told the same thing? The amount of space in the Voice piece devoted to the damn door is alone proof of this story's inanity.
Parents from all over District 2--most of Manhattan--haul their kids to Lower Lab every day. Many of them do not have fancy cars, nannies, or any of the rest of it. Many, like me, take the subway the length of the city. They go to LL because somehow they passed the ridiculously arbitrary test dictated by the city. (I have yet to meet a parent who spent "thousands of dollars on tutoring" to pass it, but perhaps they're out there.) They go to LL because the teachers are wonderful, and because their kids share space with others with strong, eager minds. We go there because in many places--much of Brooklyn, for example--the system is broken. We go there because we were offered a place and that place is better than any other we can find. No one goes there to exclude anyone--there are plenty of schools designed for that. We want to be part of the public system. We believe in it. Unfortunately, we don't control it.
Your collective quarrel at the Voice seems to be about the existence of a Gifted and Talented program at all, and what the testing process reveals about the (vast) deficiencies citywide. I agree. There is a caste system, of a sort--whether economic or racial I'll leave to you, Tony. I lived in Brooklyn for twenty years and finally moved to Manhattan to improve my kids' chances of attending a good public school. I was able to do that, but wish i hadn't needed to.
What amazes me is just how lazy your reporter was in researching this piece. The fact is, if he'd bothered to talk to administrators and parents at Lab, he'd realize that many if not most of us despise the disparities apparent there. No one likes the "you're gifted, you're not" aspect of the place. Indeed, the administration has made it an explicit goal to try to bridge the divide—actual and perceived—between the two schools. The principal has been there all of one year. Maybe you should have talked to her? I can't imagine she would have refused. But then you would have had to shed your bullshit undercover posture and actually join the issue—in all its complexity.
Instead, Tony, you and your crack team have done a fine job of mocking a tiny subset of the teacher/parent population for the failings of an entire government and school system. Singling out LL as some sort of hotbed of Whitey elitism would be hilarious if it weren't so unfair and damaging to people who are just trying to get the best education they can for their kids. Proving once again that the Voice will never let intellectual subtlety get in the way of a self-satisfied screed. No wonder it's free.
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Terry Gibson 02/25/2010 11:17:00 PM
Good work Steve. I hope that you are wrong and the comments made by supporters of the two schools are correct, but I have my doubts, your research is usually right on. Keep us aware that the U.S. is not anywhere near perfect.
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ps198zone 02/25/2010 10:16:00 PM
Wow, thanks for the contact point. Now I can say that there was one positive outcome from this abysmal hatchet job of an article.
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kimberly cameron 02/25/2010 9:42:00 PM
What a great article, it's about time someone said something about this abomination at the DOE, I have worked for 17 years inside and I cannot believe how segrated the New York City DOE really is. That said, it's time now to also write about the school system from a different lens, from the top down, which is where one really see The Last Plantation"! Good job, and look forward to reading a series of articles on these topics.
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PS 198 PA Officer 02/25/2010 9:15:00 PM
Mr. Ortega, I am a 198 parent and have been saying I have never thought of it as a back door. I am fine with our entrance. Also, I have never noticed that 198 students and parents trudge into school. We do need help with funding for Teachers Assistants and a slew of other things, as does every Public School, I believe, and if the Voice or Mr. Thrasher would like to help with this that would be a concrete way to improve the school. Again, we do not have a website, yet, but we do have an email ps198pa@gmail.com. Please reach out with any suggestions.
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Tony O 02/25/2010 8:58:00 PM
All the bluster here by Lower Lab parents is disingenuous in the extreme.
Regardless of how the Straus building was oriented when it was built in 1959, when Mr. Thrasher -- a black man, by the way -- approached the front door to go to PS 198, he was instructed by the SSA to "go around back."
That's the language used, and the reality for the mostly Latino and black children of PS 198.
Tony Ortega
Editor
The Village Voice
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PS 198 PA Officer 02/25/2010 8:20:00 PM
I have been reading the comments and anyone who wants to contact PS 198 Parent Association can email us at ps198pa@gmail.com
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Holly 02/25/2010 7:37:00 PM
You have got to be kidding! This whole "front door/back door" thing is something he made up. I am a LL parent and have used both entrances. The guards yell at me but they let me in. I actually prefer the 95th street entrance (it is not the back entrance) because is it on the floor where the classrooms are as opposed to the 3rd ave entrance where you have to go down one flight of stairs only to then go up two flights to get to the classrooms. So if the 198 parents want the 3rd ave entrance let them have it. I also don't see what's so horrible about 198. The classrooms look identical to the LL ones. The stories he told seem pretty normal for young children. They'd rather write about entertainers and sports stars than more cerebral achievements - yeah so? My child would have done the same thing. The only child he highlights, Doreen, seems smart, funny and certainly has no self esteem issues. It is interesting that he has decided that this child has self esteem issues without any evidence to back these generalizations up. He has also decided that she will be a high school dropout simply because she is a minority. Stereotype much? The author forgot to mention that 198 has a library, LL does not, and that 198 gets more funding from the city than LL. Should the LL parents call reverse discrimination? This is not journalism.
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Judy 02/25/2010 7:25:00 PM
Working in a failing NYC high school, I am outraged by the Bloomberg/Klein agendas for destroying public schools. I refer everyone to the INDYPENDENT newspaper for John Tarleton article "Bloomberg's 12-Step Method to Close Down Public Schools." Last night's meeting where Klein pushed through charter schools into more public schools means this two-tier system of education will expand more. Would you call it Union Busting since the teachers who teach at these charter schools are non UFT and have to work expanded hours? Maybe no library means each classrooms has enough books and computers to compensate for no library? This is not dealed with in the article. Interestingly, when you get to high school, most parents have stopped participating in PTA or PA or whatever you call 'em. It is hard to get cooperation from parents on any level. When the school is failing, forget about any support from parents. Is the school to blame when parents allow their teenagers to stay home for no reason? Poverty is no excuse for ignorance. Wealth is no prerequisite for wisdom or a good educaion as millions have already proved.
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Lower Lab Parent 02/25/2010 7:02:00 PM
This is the most irresponsible and inaccurate piece of journalism I have read in a long time. In my opinion, The Village Voice retains no credibility as a source of information on our City unless it prints a retraction of this piece and declines to disseminate this "journalist"'s so-called reporting in the future. Clearly Thrasher, in his efforts to do research under false pretenses, did not verify any of his information. He simply made assumptions based on what he thought he had observed, and many of these assumptions turned out to be wrong.
I won't repeat the corrections of the many inaccuracies that have already been pointed out by other commenters, but here's one that has not yet been addressed: The new gifted and talented program that will be opened at PS 198 will not draw only from students in the 198 zone. Like all other DOE g&t programs (including Lower lab), it will draw students from its entire school district -- in this case, the geographically wide-ranging District 2. There is no preference given to those living in the zone. All students who score over the DOE-established cut-off score have the opportunity to rank all g&t programs in their district, and spots are assigned according to these parent-indicated preferences starting with the top scores and proceeding downwards. In other words, the program will be drawing from exactly the same pool as Lower Lab.
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JOhnny 02/25/2010 6:37:00 PM
stop with your bullshit, why can't these kids use the same door? KKK
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I'm just saying... 02/25/2010 4:30:00 PM
This article came out the day before a major PA meeting at the Straus School. Whoever arranged this knew what they were doing!
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gabbi 02/25/2010 11:11:00 AM
At first I was upset after reading this article. Moments later, I realized that, alot of it was greatly exaggerated. What is more important to remember is that, all children, regardless of color,income or zoned school should and have the right to an excellent education. We should be doing more as parents in our childrens schools. We should be talking about the lack of funding for the arts in all schools. What about providing school children with food that is healthy, not frozen food packed with a ton of salt. Having access to fresh cold water to drink( like water coolers in the classrooms). My favorite one is, the rugs that are in the classrooms. The kids walk on them with the shoes, and then they have to sit on them, NOT COOL! I think that is really unsanitary, considering asthma and allergies. I really would like to know who comes up with ideas for the classroom. Mr. Mayor, you should try eating school lunch everyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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ps198zone 02/25/2010 10:56:00 AM
If some PS 198 parent would identify an actual contact point for the PA, that would be helpful. It's nowhere to be found via the internet or, to our befuddlement, through the Parent Outreach Coordinator. The BOE hosts school specific websites, yet 198 (whether its parents, staff, PA or kids) hasn't seen fit to provide any details or information, and that info is free and known to them.
How do you get beyond bake sales if people offer to make donations, as we did, and aren't able to get info about where to send a check?
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voodooeconomix 02/25/2010 10:23:00 AM
Statistics don't capture people's imaginations like an image. Journalism tells stories based in truth. The front door/back door image expresses simply and clearly what percentages and numbers can't. Children live in this environment day after day and are affected adversely by being separated. I applaud this journalist for drawing attention to the visual details in the environment and letting that lead the story.
Many of those parents, teachers, and administrators close to the situation have probably become insensitive to what sensitive outsiders might notice immediately: Separate and unequal. Resist, condemn, complain all you want. The environment tells the story.
It was the strength of images that led and inspired much of the Civil Rights movement. A great story gives us an image that sums up the problem. Mr Thrasher has given us an image that makes clear, Separate and Unequal is the truth and does still exist in our "Post-Racial" nation.
The article does not assign blame. It observes details that make people uncomfortable. Perhaps those who feel uncomfortable are embarrassed. After all why should it be so difficult for a writer to observe a public institution? I applaud the Author and The Village Voice for another thought provoking piece of journalism.
