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HoppyC1 02/20/2011 10:57:00 PM
Uhhh... It isn't TIM Robbins, but TOM Robbins — if I read the text correctly. It seems your political narrowness is showing - Freudianly, of course.
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Eugene 12/19/2010 8:08:00 PM
We are talking about a narrow issue here; NYC, and the Muslim center.
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Eugene 12/19/2010 8:07:00 PM
This is not the forum for Promotion and sales.
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FreeYourMind 12/03/2010 6:55:00 AM
I have a great idea for a place for the mosque/community center - right on top of the new World Trade Center.
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FreeYourMind 12/03/2010 6:51:00 AM
It's only taken about 40 years, but finally Nat Hentoff is starting to get a little sense here and there...andwho cares what Tim Robbins thinks anyway?.
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Michael Gourdine 11/24/2010 7:55:00 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGEIl6oR_vU..........Muslims have never done what is being perpetrated in this video. The people responsible for this type of action is what make N.Y.C. an unsafe place...Please watch.
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James Hanley 11/06/2010 3:48:00 AM
"There have been other mosques in New York City without opposition. That freedom is not at stake here."
It most certainly is. Because you're saying, "anywhere but here," so the freedom doesn't apply "here." But where exactly is "here"? Some people say not within two blocks of the WTC, others say not in lower Manhattan, and still others say not in New York. As recent protests in Tennessee, Wisconsin, and California show, for many people post 9/11 "here" is the whole U.S.
You may not think carving out just one small geographical exception doesn't put the freedom at risk, but what on earth makes you think you can control the size of that geographical space?
You've admitted that some places can be exceptions to the rule of religious freedom, the rest is just arguing over which places, how many of them, and how big. It's rather like the famous saying attributed to Winston Churchill: "Ma'am, we've already established that you're a prostitute; now we're just haggling over the price.
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marty1234 10/25/2010 12:31:00 PM
So Syed please explain to me why after the 1967 war when the israelis had control over the palestinians theIr life expectancy went from 40 to 70 years of age and every year there medium income significantly increased for the twenty years the israelis were in control but once the United Nations and the west allowed Arafat in they soon lost all these gains..I'll tell you why its because the palestinians have been used as pawns by much of the arab world for decades..Perhaps you didn't read about Arafat stealing 1 billion dollars from the palestinians.. They will continue to be exploited by other arab countries and by the way no one buys your rational about the mosque or whatever you want to call it although i'm glad they elected to pursue building it at that location as i'm sure you are aware many americans are quite naive but the continued pursuit of building the mosque has actually helped the naive among us see what your really about...Thank you for that....although I must say I do like the design of the proposed mosque.
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marty1234 10/25/2010 12:31:00 PM
So Syed please explain to me why after the 1967 war when the israelis had control over the palestinians theIr life expectancy went from 40 to 70 years of age and every year there medium income significantly increased for the twenty years the israelis were in control but once the United Nations and the west allowed Arafat in they soon lost all these gains..I'll tell you why its because the palestinians have been used as pawns by much of the arab world for decades..Perhaps you didn't read about Arafat stealing 1 billion dollars from the palestinians.. They will continue to be exploited by other arab countries and by the way no one buys your rational about the mosque or whatever you want to call it although i'm glad they elected to pursue building it at that location as i'm sure you are aware many americans are quite naive but the continued pursuit of building the mosque has actually helped the naive among us see what your really about...Thank you for that....although I must say I do like the design of the proposed mosque.
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Ibrahim Syed 10/23/2010 5:13:00 AM
First off, I'm a Muslim.
I can't imagine any mainstream Muslim publication, for any reason, hosting editorials lecturing Jews or Christians on where they should or shouldn't build a structure. It's pretty jarring to see so many Jewish publications and Jewish activists come out so vocally against Muslims regarding this COMMUNITY CENTER (not a mosque).
As for the question of why 2 blocks from Ground Zero, this has been answered numerous times. It was meant to be a symbolic "taking back Islam from the fundementalists" gesture. The building would be open to people of all faiths, and would condemn extremism. Perhaps Imam Rauf, his wife and supporters were naive in thinking people like you would see their efforts in anything but the most negative light.
I agree, he should have condemned Hamas, and been mindful to condemn Israel doubly. Palestinians are living in a concentration camp. Israel controls their fates, and will neither set them free as an independent state, nor give them the rights of citizenship as Israelis. As such, every Palestinian born since the late 40s has been born a prisoner, refugees seeing their own killed and their homes destroyed by the Israelis, decade after decade. While Hamas' actions are horrific, they're a response to an equally horrific occupation.
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Ibrahim Syed 10/23/2010 5:13:00 AM
First off, I'm a Muslim.
I can't imagine any mainstream Muslim publication, for any reason, hosting editorials lecturing Jews or Christians on where they should or shouldn't build a structure. It's pretty jarring to see so many Jewish publications and Jewish activists come out so vocally against Muslims regarding this COMMUNITY CENTER (not a mosque).
As for the question of why 2 blocks from Ground Zero, this has been answered numerous times. It was meant to be a symbolic "taking back Islam from the fundementalists" gesture. The building would be open to people of all faiths, and would condemn extremism. Perhaps Imam Rauf, his wife and supporters were naive in thinking people like you would see their efforts in anything but the most negative light.
I agree, he should have condemned Hamas, and been mindful to condemn Israel doubly. Palestinians are living in a concentration camp. Israel controls their fates, and will neither set them free as an independent state, nor give them the rights of citizenship as Israelis. As such, every Palestinian born since the late 40s has been born a prisoner, refugees seeing their own killed and their homes destroyed by the Israelis, decade after decade. While Hamas' actions are horrific, they're a response to an equally horrific occupation.
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Thomas 10/22/2010 9:19:00 PM
Sorry Nat, we here in the Politburo will have to "rethink" (liberal speak for Blacklist) your standing as a liberal. You (of all people) should know thinking for yourself and straying from the narrow, leftist view of the world that your masters have dictated WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!
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Thomas 10/22/2010 9:19:00 PM
Sorry Nat, we here in the Politburo will have to "rethink" (liberal speak for Blacklist) your standing as a liberal. You (of all people) should know thinking for yourself and straying from the narrow, leftist view of the world that your masters have dictated WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!
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Marty1234 10/21/2010 9:56:00 PM
If the Germans could tolerate auschwitz we can tolerate a mosque....
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Marty1234 10/21/2010 9:56:00 PM
If the Germans could tolerate auschwitz we can tolerate a mosque....
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claylady 10/21/2010 11:36:00 AM
"A. J. Weberman 10/01/2010 1:36:07 PM
Wake up gay Village Voice readers. You will never be allowed to be a part of this Mosque. You are digging your own graves by supporting Islam. Do not be tolerant of intolerance."
Seriously, when are you gays going to wake up and realize Sharia law condemns your lifestyle? How 'bout that Saudi prince in London who is accused of murdering his manservant? He doesn't want the truth of his homosexuality to come out because he knows his own family will have him executed if he returns to Saudi Arabia-not for the murder he committed-but for bringing shame on his family for being gay. And yet you same gays HATE the Catholic church. Yeah, when was the last time the Catholic church executed a member for being gay? Wake up people! You will be the first to die under Sharia law.
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claylady 10/21/2010 11:36:00 AM
"A. J. Weberman 10/01/2010 1:36:07 PM
Wake up gay Village Voice readers. You will never be allowed to be a part of this Mosque. You are digging your own graves by supporting Islam. Do not be tolerant of intolerance."
Seriously, when are you gays going to wake up and realize Sharia law condemns your lifestyle? How 'bout that Saudi prince in London who is accused of murdering his manservant? He doesn't want the truth of his homosexuality to come out because he knows his own family will have him executed if he returns to Saudi Arabia-not for the murder he committed-but for bringing shame on his family for being gay. And yet you same gays HATE the Catholic church. Yeah, when was the last time the Catholic church executed a member for being gay? Wake up people! You will be the first to die under Sharia law.
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Crawford 10/20/2010 4:53:00 AM
Trying and failing to come up with adequate mockery of two pages of "I got called out, but nuh-uh!" The logic is weak, the arguments are incomplete and tangential, and some of the more naked obfuscations and misdirections of the issue--"But what about Hamas!!"--are simultaneously pathetic and appalling in a way I'm surprised to see anywhere but Fox News. Hard to believe anyone would be willing to put their name underneath that column.
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Crawford 10/20/2010 4:53:00 AM
Trying and failing to come up with adequate mockery of two pages of "I got called out, but nuh-uh!" The logic is weak, the arguments are incomplete and tangential, and some of the more naked obfuscations and misdirections of the issue--"But what about Hamas!!"--are simultaneously pathetic and appalling in a way I'm surprised to see anywhere but Fox News. Hard to believe anyone would be willing to put their name underneath that column.
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Jim Orso 10/18/2010 8:01:00 AM
Henthoff has completely turned his back on his values with this one. By his logic in this article, the Civil Rights Movement never should have happened because those who were engaging in non-violent, peaceful behavior were putting other black Americans at risk. Should THEY have waited until people were less close-minded to start their movement? The motto at the time was "If not us, who? If not now, when?" Why, then, should these Muslim-Americans have to wait for minds to open to enjoy their RIGHTS UNDER THE LAW IN THE UNITED STATES TO FREELY WORSHIP WHERE THEY CHOOSE?! for Henthoff to use this argument is not only ridiculous, but also insulting to his readers. Further, to note that Imam Rauf hasn't openly condemned Hamas seems hypocritical when in the same paragraph Henthoff fails to note the gross disparity between Hamas' activity and Israel's blatant oppression of Palestinians on a daily basis. And by the same point, should Catholics be required to condemn the IRA before building a church? I believe that Henthoff, whether he knows it or not, has a strong bias against Muslims -- there's no other explanation for this kind an article. The more quickly he realizes this, the more quickly he'll be able to get this issue in line with his respectable First Amendment history. Until then, I've lost a LOT of respect for the man.
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Jim Orso 10/18/2010 8:01:00 AM
Henthoff has completely turned his back on his values with this one. By his logic in this article, the Civil Rights Movement never should have happened because those who were engaging in non-violent, peaceful behavior were putting other black Americans at risk. Should THEY have waited until people were less close-minded to start their movement? The motto at the time was "If not us, who? If not now, when?" Why, then, should these Muslim-Americans have to wait for minds to open to enjoy their RIGHTS UNDER THE LAW IN THE UNITED STATES TO FREELY WORSHIP WHERE THEY CHOOSE?! for Henthoff to use this argument is not only ridiculous, but also insulting to his readers. Further, to note that Imam Rauf hasn't openly condemned Hamas seems hypocritical when in the same paragraph Henthoff fails to note the gross disparity between Hamas' activity and Israel's blatant oppression of Palestinians on a daily basis. And by the same point, should Catholics be required to condemn the IRA before building a church? I believe that Henthoff, whether he knows it or not, has a strong bias against Muslims -- there's no other explanation for this kind an article. The more quickly he realizes this, the more quickly he'll be able to get this issue in line with his respectable First Amendment history. Until then, I've lost a LOT of respect for the man.
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S 10/15/2010 12:51:00 PM
I agree with the author that the mosque should not be built so close to ground zero. It's clear that the Iman does not respect NYC, does not respect people who died and those who survived 9/11, and he does not understand how this mosque so close to ground zero is going to show radical Muslims a symbol that they have won against the Infidels in the West and Israel.
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S 10/15/2010 12:51:00 PM
I agree with the author that the mosque should not be built so close to ground zero. It's clear that the Iman does not respect NYC, does not respect people who died and those who survived 9/11, and he does not understand how this mosque so close to ground zero is going to show radical Muslims a symbol that they have won against the Infidels in the West and Israel.
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Pammy S 10/06/2010 10:55:00 AM
I love how people say "they have the right to build, but that doesn't mean they should." People also have the right to express their opinion, that doesn't mean they should. So when you stop expressing your offensive views, I'll stop lending my full support for the building of the cultural center falsely called a mosque.
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Pammy S 10/06/2010 10:55:00 AM
I love how people say "they have the right to build, but that doesn't mean they should." People also have the right to express their opinion, that doesn't mean they should. So when you stop expressing your offensive views, I'll stop lending my full support for the building of the cultural center falsely called a mosque.
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Marcia Steiner 10/05/2010 2:38:00 PM
To say that the cultural center (it's not really a mosque) shouldn't be built because it provokes violence against Muslims is like saying gays shouldn't come out of the closet because that will just provoke violence against gays. Or like saying Blacks shouldn't seek to live in predominantly white neighborhoods because that will only ... well, you get the idea.
Doesn't work for me, Nat. Sorry.
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Marcia Steiner 10/05/2010 2:38:00 PM
To say that the cultural center (it's not really a mosque) shouldn't be built because it provokes violence against Muslims is like saying gays shouldn't come out of the closet because that will just provoke violence against gays. Or like saying Blacks shouldn't seek to live in predominantly white neighborhoods because that will only ... well, you get the idea.
Doesn't work for me, Nat. Sorry.
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Andre Robinson 10/04/2010 11:19:00 PM
To borrow a phrase from SNL- "Nate, you ignorant slut!" The freedoms we enjoy in the United States have all been won. We fought for them in the face of armed opposition, disfavor from the majority power structure and at the cost of the discomfort of those that were wedded to the status quo. I am sure the England loved having us as a colony, that privledged white Americans loved owning free labor, that the rich loved having the poor to exploit. I won't be able to prove it, but I wonder if you spent many column inches condemning Israeli settler atrocities against Palestinians. The idea that people of any faith, ethnicity, cultural group or sexual orientation should have to wait until everyone else is "comfortable" with them before they get to exercise their freedoms as American citizens belongs to another age. The progression of American liberty depends on us allowing room for those we may disagree with. Many of the framers of the Constitution were slave-holders and even they understood that.
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Andre Robinson 10/04/2010 11:19:00 PM
To borrow a phrase from SNL- "Nate, you ignorant slut!" The freedoms we enjoy in the United States have all been won. We fought for them in the face of armed opposition, disfavor from the majority power structure and at the cost of the discomfort of those that were wedded to the status quo. I am sure the England loved having us as a colony, that privledged white Americans loved owning free labor, that the rich loved having the poor to exploit. I won't be able to prove it, but I wonder if you spent many column inches condemning Israeli settler atrocities against Palestinians. The idea that people of any faith, ethnicity, cultural group or sexual orientation should have to wait until everyone else is "comfortable" with them before they get to exercise their freedoms as American citizens belongs to another age. The progression of American liberty depends on us allowing room for those we may disagree with. Many of the framers of the Constitution were slave-holders and even they understood that.
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Al 10/04/2010 11:16:00 PM
Mr. Hentoff in this article expertly outlines 4 strong reasons why the Muslins shouldn't have a Mosque anywhere near any special places:
1.Guilt by association. Here's how it works: If I can draw a connection, based on appearance, between you and some unsavory character, then you have to publicly refudiate the other guy whenever I ask you to. Just like all African Americans need to refudiate Farrakhan on demand, all Arabs should be required to refudiate Hamas publicly and loudly. Otherwise we can consider them guilty since in our minds we associate them with Hamas. Note that Arabs like humus and humus sounds like Hamas. I personally ate humus for lunch yesterday and then refudiated Hamas to everyone for the rest of the day.
2.Abbey Lincoln. The fact that Nat Hentoff digs Abbey Lincoln means that even though he appears to be a prejudiced lunatic chicken hawk xenophobe, he couldn't be, because Abbey Lincoln was so hip. Innocence by association. Note that Imam Rauf has never mentioned Abbey Lincoln, not even once!
3.All the extreme Islamists and extreme anti-Muslim elements are being inflamed by this project and its backlash. If the project would go away we probably wouldn't have very many extremists anymore. Making people mad is a really bad thing to do.
4.Nat Hentoff lived in a Jewish ghetto when he was a boy, a long time ago. At that time the memory of what the Jews did to Jesus was still fresh in peoples' minds, so many Jews did the sensitive thing and chose to live in “ghettos” rather than near churches and Christian people. This showed true empathy on the part of the Jews and helped make anti-Jewish sentiment go away forever. If the Moslem people would voluntarily move into a ghetto, everyone would probably like them better and we'd be so much safer.
In short, don't do anything offensive ever. Offensive behavior is anything that offends anyone, anytime. If you find that anyone is offended by anything you do, stop immediately.
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Al 10/04/2010 11:16:00 PM
Mr. Hentoff in this article expertly outlines 4 strong reasons why the Muslins shouldn't have a Mosque anywhere near any special places:
1.Guilt by association. Here's how it works: If I can draw a connection, based on appearance, between you and some unsavory character, then you have to publicly refudiate the other guy whenever I ask you to. Just like all African Americans need to refudiate Farrakhan on demand, all Arabs should be required to refudiate Hamas publicly and loudly. Otherwise we can consider them guilty since in our minds we associate them with Hamas. Note that Arabs like humus and humus sounds like Hamas. I personally ate humus for lunch yesterday and then refudiated Hamas to everyone for the rest of the day.
2.Abbey Lincoln. The fact that Nat Hentoff digs Abbey Lincoln means that even though he appears to be a prejudiced lunatic chicken hawk xenophobe, he couldn't be, because Abbey Lincoln was so hip. Innocence by association. Note that Imam Rauf has never mentioned Abbey Lincoln, not even once!
3.All the extreme Islamists and extreme anti-Muslim elements are being inflamed by this project and its backlash. If the project would go away we probably wouldn't have very many extremists anymore. Making people mad is a really bad thing to do.
4.Nat Hentoff lived in a Jewish ghetto when he was a boy, a long time ago. At that time the memory of what the Jews did to Jesus was still fresh in peoples' minds, so many Jews did the sensitive thing and chose to live in “ghettos” rather than near churches and Christian people. This showed true empathy on the part of the Jews and helped make anti-Jewish sentiment go away forever. If the Moslem people would voluntarily move into a ghetto, everyone would probably like them better and we'd be so much safer.
In short, don't do anything offensive ever. Offensive behavior is anything that offends anyone, anytime. If you find that anyone is offended by anything you do, stop immediately.
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Steven Faul 10/04/2010 5:12:00 PM
The more the Utopia of the USA becomes history, the more the opposite ideas will be on the rise.
Nat where is your self confidence? Are your already living in a post-american world? The new angst will be a selffulfilling prophecy if men like you lose a dream.
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Steven Faul 10/04/2010 5:12:00 PM
The more the Utopia of the USA becomes history, the more the opposite ideas will be on the rise.
Nat where is your self confidence? Are your already living in a post-american world? The new angst will be a selffulfilling prophecy if men like you lose a dream.
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harry hobbs 10/04/2010 3:16:00 PM
Seems like you are one of the white Americans that Steven Thrasher writes about. If I can summarise what appears to be your argument, "The Mosque should not be built two blocks from ground zero because many Americans think all Muslims are terrorists. In this environment it is best for all Muslims to sit down, shut up, to be neither seen nor heard."
Finally, you take umbrage at the fact that Imam Rauf has not said a world about a recent 7 murders by Hamas. Would you have the Imam apologise for every incident of violence by Islamists throughout the world? Double standards thy name is Nat
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harry hobbs 10/04/2010 3:16:00 PM
Seems like you are one of the white Americans that Steven Thrasher writes about. If I can summarise what appears to be your argument, "The Mosque should not be built two blocks from ground zero because many Americans think all Muslims are terrorists. In this environment it is best for all Muslims to sit down, shut up, to be neither seen nor heard."
Finally, you take umbrage at the fact that Imam Rauf has not said a world about a recent 7 murders by Hamas. Would you have the Imam apologise for every incident of violence by Islamists throughout the world? Double standards thy name is Nat
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Mark Devlin 10/04/2010 1:42:00 PM
Wasn't there an important and interesting journalist called Nat Hentoff back in the 60s and 70s? I wonder what happened to him. Anyway, who's the confused and boring old man writing under his name now?
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Mark Devlin 10/04/2010 1:42:00 PM
Wasn't there an important and interesting journalist called Nat Hentoff back in the 60s and 70s? I wonder what happened to him. Anyway, who's the confused and boring old man writing under his name now?
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sanford sklansky 10/04/2010 2:36:00 AM
I am guessing this was written before the 60 minutes segment on the mosque. Nat I think you of all people should not be misrepresenting this building as a mosque. I beleive it is to be a 14 story community center, with Jews, Muslims and Christians on the board of directors.
Finally and probably should have been first muslims have already been using the existing building as a mosque. I also believe there is an existing Mosque in the neigbhood but a little farther away but has outgrown it is usefulness.
You and others have asked why they would want to cause trouble by building this center. Would you have said the same thing about blacks whou wanted to move in to white neighborhoods?
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sanford sklansky 10/04/2010 2:36:00 AM
I am guessing this was written before the 60 minutes segment on the mosque. Nat I think you of all people should not be misrepresenting this building as a mosque. I beleive it is to be a 14 story community center, with Jews, Muslims and Christians on the board of directors.
Finally and probably should have been first muslims have already been using the existing building as a mosque. I also believe there is an existing Mosque in the neigbhood but a little farther away but has outgrown it is usefulness.
You and others have asked why they would want to cause trouble by building this center. Would you have said the same thing about blacks whou wanted to move in to white neighborhoods?
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Batman 10/03/2010 11:38:00 PM
Nat, you have no penis. This column is a disgrace and your continued employment in the field of journalism is damning. The next time you find yourself asking such vapid, useless questions as "well why do they HAVE to build it HERE?" do us all a favor and drown yourself.
The builders of the cordoba house chose a legal and appropriate location for their community center. That's the end of the discussion. I long for the day when we are free from all religion, but that day will not come by being fantastic assholes to Muslims. God, you are so worthless and disgusting.
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pensword 10/03/2010 9:43:00 PM
Nat Hentoff writes:
"Around this country, the exploding furor over Imam Rauf's choice of location has now ignited fierce and bigoted opposition to existing mosques."
This statement obscures the fact that said opposition to mosque construction and expansion in other parts of America had been occurring *with regularity* long before the Park51 brouhaha was precipitated by individuals with a long history of anti-Islam activism.
Take it from a muslim American who's been around long enough to know, not some journalist who can't be bothered to avoid speculation.
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Sonja Foxe 10/03/2010 7:55:00 PM
Furthermore, the first theological tenant of the Chapel of the Matriarchs is "God does not have a penus"
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Sonja Foxe 10/03/2010 7:55:00 PM
Furthermore, the first theological tenant of the Chapel of the Matriarchs is "God does not have a penus"
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Sonja Foxe 10/03/2010 6:59:00 PM
Build a Chapel across the street dedicated to The Matriarchs -- Haggar, Sarah, Mary -- and devoted to women's rights
Get Donald Trump to fund it
then everyone's happy or equally unhappy
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Sonja Foxe 10/03/2010 6:59:00 PM
Build a Chapel across the street dedicated to The Matriarchs -- Haggar, Sarah, Mary -- and devoted to women's rights
Get Donald Trump to fund it
then everyone's happy or equally unhappy
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Ko 10/03/2010 9:35:00 AM
Nat, you still haven't answered the question how far from Ground Zero is far enough. You need to do that.
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Ko 10/03/2010 9:35:00 AM
Nat, you still haven't answered the question how far from Ground Zero is far enough. You need to do that.
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absha 10/03/2010 5:04:00 AM
to Yonjuro, who said:
9/11 was the saracen 's greatest victory over the West since the 12th century.
A saracen is either an arab, or a muslim from the time of the crusades. Your comment does not make sense. Either you don't know history, or language.
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Linus 10/03/2010 12:07:00 AM
"If the Muslim society turned a blind eye to this rather than standing up for this now this would only secretly manifest into a full blown epidemic of fear more so than it already has. Honestly I am surprised with such a huge Jewish community in NYC that people ever made this an issue. Even still in this high tech age, no matter how educated we are about the world around us; history still repeats itself. Next it will be the Halal Food Carts that have to go. You catch more bee's with honey, or what my point is that...we have the opportunity to build bridges of communication and compassion here. This Mosque turned into a significant symbol of peace and tolerance that could potentially heavily influence the rest of the middle eastern world. Right now is a pivotal moment that can effect the future of the "muslim" terrorist organizations. There is a severe lack of communication between the citizens and the rest of the world. Kids in the middle east need to learn its much more heroic being a non-violent freedom fighter than joining terrorist organizations. The only people who can communicate best and quickly pass on peace are Muslims here, to catch those "bees" with our compassion and that we here in this nation ALL co-exist, violence and violence as an answer is NEVER permitted anywhere just for the sake of brotherly love and all mankind. This is why building this is so very important. We LEAD by EXAMPLE Charlie Brown."
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Rick Diehl 10/02/2010 11:55:00 PM
Nat, you are a fine writer, but you really do have it wrong here. Like it or not, all of the equivocation does not change that you are in favor of denying Muslim Americans their right to freedom of assembly. Do you truly not see it?
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Ben 10/02/2010 9:37:00 PM
Not only is this article wrong-minded, it is terribly written, bordering on incoherent. Get your act together.
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Ben 10/02/2010 9:37:00 PM
Not only is this article wrong-minded, it is terribly written, bordering on incoherent. Get your act together.
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PCL 10/02/2010 8:13:00 PM
Just as I'm disappointed to hear so few "moderate" Muslims explicitly defend the right of any American to criticize, mock or deface the symbols of any religion, I'm disappointed that Hentoff has not at unequivocally supported the constitutional right of Rauf's followers to build a mosque (let's call it what it is) on any private property it can buy; his quote from the United Media column might have been intended as unequivocal, but it vaguely implies that mosques in other locations make up for the denial of this one. I agree with Hentoff that 2 blocks from Ground Zero was a dumb choice of location, but having chosen it, Rauf would be doing a disservice to the First Amendment by backing down in the face of pressure. It was also unfortunate that Hentoff used the deaths of Israeli settlers (as opposed to a residents of Israel proper) to argue that Hamas is a terrorist organization (though it clearly is). As one who distrusts all religions (especially Islam), I still can't muster much sympathy for the minority of Israelis who believe they have a "historic" right to usurp property they don't own as settlement of a 2000 year old grudge
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PCL 10/02/2010 8:13:00 PM
Just as I'm disappointed to hear so few "moderate" Muslims explicitly defend the right of any American to criticize, mock or deface the symbols of any religion, I'm disappointed that Hentoff has not at unequivocally supported the constitutional right of Rauf's followers to build a mosque (let's call it what it is) on any private property it can buy; his quote from the United Media column might have been intended as unequivocal, but it vaguely implies that mosques in other locations make up for the denial of this one. I agree with Hentoff that 2 blocks from Ground Zero was a dumb choice of location, but having chosen it, Rauf would be doing a disservice to the First Amendment by backing down in the face of pressure. It was also unfortunate that Hentoff used the deaths of Israeli settlers (as opposed to a residents of Israel proper) to argue that Hamas is a terrorist organization (though it clearly is). As one who distrusts all religions (especially Islam), I still can't muster much sympathy for the minority of Israelis who believe they have a "historic" right to usurp property they don't own as settlement of a 2000 year old grudge
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Zafar 10/02/2010 5:04:00 PM
Park 51 has become more complex an issue than it should have been. I am a muslim and an American. I believe we should take human sensitivities into account in this particular case. I have covered this on my blog http://www.silentconscience.org/2010/09/new-york-mosque-should-only-be.html
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Zafar 10/02/2010 5:04:00 PM
Park 51 has become more complex an issue than it should have been. I am a muslim and an American. I believe we should take human sensitivities into account in this particular case. I have covered this on my blog http://www.silentconscience.org/2010/09/new-york-mosque-should-only-be.html
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Henry 10/02/2010 3:40:00 AM
I write comedy here is one concernng this topic I hope you like it
Henry
Astronomers have discovered, that the “Goldilocks” solar system, 120 trillion miles away could sustain life. Solving the problems of overpopulation and where to put the Mosgue.
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Henry 10/02/2010 3:40:00 AM
I write comedy here is one concernng this topic I hope you like it
Henry
Astronomers have discovered, that the “Goldilocks” solar system, 120 trillion miles away could sustain life. Solving the problems of overpopulation and where to put the Mosgue.
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A. J. Weberman 10/02/2010 2:36:00 AM
Wake up gay Village Voice readers. You will never be allowed to be a part of this Mosque. You are digging your own graves by supporting Islam. Do not be tolerant of intolerance.
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A. J. Weberman 10/02/2010 2:36:00 AM
Wake up gay Village Voice readers. You will never be allowed to be a part of this Mosque. You are digging your own graves by supporting Islam. Do not be tolerant of intolerance.
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A. J, Weberman 10/02/2010 2:29:00 AM
Feisal Abdul Rauf is a deep cover Isalmist. He was the son of Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood Imam and Sunni scholar Muhammad Abdul Rauf (1917–2004) who was related to Muslim Brotherhood jihadi Abdul Munim Abdul Rauf who attempted to assassinate Egyptian strong man Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1954. As a result the Muslim Brotherhood was made illegal in Egypt. Following this Munim Rauf and five other attempted assassins were executed, and four thousand Muslim Brotherhood members were rounded up and arrested then sent to the Citadel Prison. Muhammad Abdul Rauf had to flee Egypt or he would have been in for a big shock. Gamal Nasser would be exposed to three more assassination attempts before he died of a heart attack on September 28, 1970. Feisal realized that he could never penetrate American society if he took the line that America, the Great Satan, must be destroyed so he received permission from a radical Imam to become a peace-loving Sufi. He has a hidden agenda to destroy America and he must be stopped. There is no such thing as ISLAMOPHOBIA. A phobia is an irrational fear. Islam is a real threat.
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A. J, Weberman 10/02/2010 2:29:00 AM
Feisal Abdul Rauf is a deep cover Isalmist. He was the son of Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood Imam and Sunni scholar Muhammad Abdul Rauf (1917–2004) who was related to Muslim Brotherhood jihadi Abdul Munim Abdul Rauf who attempted to assassinate Egyptian strong man Gamal Abdul Nasser in 1954. As a result the Muslim Brotherhood was made illegal in Egypt. Following this Munim Rauf and five other attempted assassins were executed, and four thousand Muslim Brotherhood members were rounded up and arrested then sent to the Citadel Prison. Muhammad Abdul Rauf had to flee Egypt or he would have been in for a big shock. Gamal Nasser would be exposed to three more assassination attempts before he died of a heart attack on September 28, 1970. Feisal realized that he could never penetrate American society if he took the line that America, the Great Satan, must be destroyed so he received permission from a radical Imam to become a peace-loving Sufi. He has a hidden agenda to destroy America and he must be stopped. There is no such thing as ISLAMOPHOBIA. A phobia is an irrational fear. Islam is a real threat.
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Tara 10/02/2010 1:32:00 AM
Even though Mr. Hentoff's column is rambling and completely lacks lucidity, the one point I could understand was that he is claiming that there are other mosques in the city that were built without opposition saying ". . . Of course, all American Muslims have their First Amendment right to exercise their freedom of religion in their place of worship. There have been other mosques in New York City without opposition. That freedom is not at stake here". This may have been the case in the past but it has not been the case in recent years. One only needs to look at the uproar over the proposed mosques in Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn and in Staten Island to see that this is an erroneous assertion. And this is not a mosque at Ground Zero, it is a community center open to all people in the fashion of the 92 Street Y, which began as a Young Men's Hebrew Association.
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Tara 10/02/2010 1:32:00 AM
Even though Mr. Hentoff's column is rambling and completely lacks lucidity, the one point I could understand was that he is claiming that there are other mosques in the city that were built without opposition saying ". . . Of course, all American Muslims have their First Amendment right to exercise their freedom of religion in their place of worship. There have been other mosques in New York City without opposition. That freedom is not at stake here". This may have been the case in the past but it has not been the case in recent years. One only needs to look at the uproar over the proposed mosques in Sheepshead Bay in Brooklyn and in Staten Island to see that this is an erroneous assertion. And this is not a mosque at Ground Zero, it is a community center open to all people in the fashion of the 92 Street Y, which began as a Young Men's Hebrew Association.
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Tom 10/01/2010 9:18:00 PM
Knuckling under to the whims of lunatics is the surest way to encourage them. If they are allowed to win this battle, upon what will they next focus their attention? How will Mr. Hentoff justify his indefensible position on that skirmish?
No, this is the line we cannot cross. These crackpots are damaging our country, and it is crucial that we give no ground to their lies and hatred. Mr. Hentoff would have us retreat with our tails between our legs, but some difficult battles must be fought, and won, for the American experiment to succeed. This is one such battle.
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Tom 10/01/2010 9:18:00 PM
Knuckling under to the whims of lunatics is the surest way to encourage them. If they are allowed to win this battle, upon what will they next focus their attention? How will Mr. Hentoff justify his indefensible position on that skirmish?
No, this is the line we cannot cross. These crackpots are damaging our country, and it is crucial that we give no ground to their lies and hatred. Mr. Hentoff would have us retreat with our tails between our legs, but some difficult battles must be fought, and won, for the American experiment to succeed. This is one such battle.
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rourke 10/01/2010 11:41:00 AM
don't include a fucking comments section if you're going to remove respectful disagreements (albeit perhaps not the most popular in terms of context, even when certainly linguistically acceptable) 5 minutes after they are verifiably posted. pussywhips!
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rourke 10/01/2010 11:41:00 AM
don't include a fucking comments section if you're going to remove respectful disagreements (albeit perhaps not the most popular in terms of context, even when certainly linguistically acceptable) 5 minutes after they are verifiably posted. pussywhips!
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el cabron dentro... 10/01/2010 9:01:00 AM
... god i hate these handheld device mini-keyboards with their goddamn tiny keys and bullshit 'auto-correct features'. no "spell check" i notice. fucking kids break dancing on crowded train cars... "enable cookies" pop-ups. and where's the save button on this bitch?
spill your guts and still come across as a punk unable to spell the word 'since'.
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el cabron dentro... 10/01/2010 9:01:00 AM
... god i hate these handheld device mini-keyboards with their goddamn tiny keys and bullshit 'auto-correct features'. no "spell check" i notice. fucking kids break dancing on crowded train cars... "enable cookies" pop-ups. and where's the save button on this bitch?
spill your guts and still come across as a punk unable to spell the word 'since'.
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Dan-in-PA 09/30/2010 10:00:00 PM
I can answer that in 4 words...."Because you're an asshole"
It's not a mosque you jerk, it's the Islamic equivalent to a JCC.
Grow the fuck up.
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Thomas 09/30/2010 9:52:00 PM
Sasha: Wow, what a coincidence. A Muslim who believes that 911 was an inside job.
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David 09/30/2010 7:59:00 PM
Perhaps the reason Mr. Rauf did not think there would be such a firestorm is because he actually believed that most Americans actually would agree with the idea of freedom of religion. That's so incredibly not true in this nation right now (and nor has it ever been as "free" as the books tell us), that the idea borders on simplistic.
And it should be. They're very simple concepts, freedom of religion and freedom of assembly, but the idea that all Americans will immediately embrace these ideas is ridiculous. We've never lived up to our hype or our mythology, even though that's all we ever hear about. Want to know what "real" America cares about? Making damned sure that the myth lives even as they trash the fundamental rights those myths are supposed to protect. Once we as a country start recognizing our own hypocrisies and start acting to counter them, we'll have much stronger positions to stand on (and for).
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Sasha Lazarios 09/30/2010 7:53:00 PM
The writer of this article is nasty. I am a Muslim who's also Jewish by lineage (my maternal grandma was a French Jew from New Orleans) and I'm sick and tired of this country acting like Muslims have to apologize just because they are. 911 was a tragic occurance-it was also an inside job (the 4th plane was headed for the White House, Bush knew to be elsewhere that day.)The issue for dispute is not that a Masjid gets built (that's beautiful to build a Masjid); but that such an extravagant one is. There are so many Muslims in Philly alone and also in NYC who are living very difficult lives below the legal poverty level; wouldn't a more modest building for say, 5million, and most of that money being used for Muslim employment, education, and other things like a Muslim general hospital or something to help the poor in our ummi be more in the spirit of Al Islam?
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Sam Adams 09/30/2010 5:16:00 PM
Cowardly article. Who cares where there are buildings of religious worship. They are all equally nuts.
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Ozzy Mandias 09/30/2010 11:02:00 AM
Heh. These comments are amusing. Nat, I hope you're happy sharing the Village Asswipe with Steven Thrasher and other luminaries of the Community-Based Reality. Face it -- the "principled left" is GONE! All that remains is the twin pillars of smug self-righteousness and sucking up to totalitarians.
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yeh 09/30/2010 10:50:00 AM
So according to the prodigal-yid Nat Hentoff, synagogues should be allowed on virtually every street in Manhattan, churches every other street, but no room for a prayer center for Muslims and their guests? The Mohel went a bit too far on Hentoff's Bis methinks! All that pent up frustration's made him quite mad. What a waste of an article - certainly not journalism.
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yonjuro 09/30/2010 6:39:00 AM
9/11 was the saracen 's greatest victory over the West since the 12th century. There is no possible reason to build a mosque at Ground Zero other than to rub our noses in it.
These monsters are doing the "happy dance" on our graves, and the "useful idiots" like Obama and Bloomberg, with their mealy-mouthed pandering, are providing the music.
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yonjuro 09/30/2010 6:30:00 AM
9/11 was the saracen 's greatest victory over the West since the 12th century. There is no possible reason to build a mosque at Ground Zero other than to rub our noses in it.
These monsters are doing the "happy dance" on our graves, and the "useful idiots" like Obama and Bloomberg are providing the music with their mealy-mouthed pandering..
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J Miller 09/30/2010 5:00:00 AM
This entire thing is a hollow "controversy" ginned up by Fox News. If a bunch of rightwing extremists hadn't seized upon it and turned it into the Outrage du Jour, then no one would have cared about the so-called "Ground Zero mosque." It's sad to see someone like Nat Hentoff buying into this ridiculous nonsense.
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KT 09/30/2010 3:59:00 AM
3:12:42 AM "It seems pretty clear to me why the Imam cannot back down from his chosen site now: it would be a capitulation to the worst elements of American society, an action tantamount to caving in to terrorists. . . "
Some bigots would see this as capitulation. So we should ignore the objections of ALL Americans, including Muslims, who oppose this location. And it would be capitulation to the 58% of Arab Muslims who oppose the location. And capitulation to prominent Muslim scholars in Egypt who think that the location is part of a Zionist plot.
We should demand that Imam Rauf not capitulate to the pressure to move the complex - just like we should demand that cartoonists who propose drawing Mohammed should not capitulate to terrorist threats. They should be able to live freely, under their own names, without fearing the violent death advocated by groups with an actual history of terrorism.
We should always demand that people ignore their own best interests in order to protect the right to engage in speech and actions which many people find offensive.
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Rachel 09/30/2010 1:22:00 AM
Aaah Hentoff opines...why just a honest thoughtful run of the mill opposer....And the ugly head of semitsim grins. L'Chaim
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Gus 09/29/2010 10:46:00 PM
You can't make an omelette without cracking eggs, and this omelette will be looking back 10 years from now and having so many more people than do now think it is ludicrous that anyone ever objected to this project. Cowering to irrational, misplaced fear mongering and grudge holding isn't going to get us there.
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chris 09/29/2010 7:34:00 PM
You article is silently pro Israel and generalizes the Imam's views of Hamas and other groups. You devalue your own opinion against the Imam by leaving out points from the other sides and by just quoting clips and phrases out of context.
Furthermore, how dare you just add a clip invoking the word "slaughter" about an Hamas attack. For every one attack by a muslim there is an attack by israel. Neither side is innocent or less guilty in their exhausted struggle.
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Gersan 09/29/2010 6:42:00 PM
Dear Village Voice,
Since you've brought back Nat Hentoff as a columnist, why don't you bring back Ted Rall as well? Ted was the reason why I became a regular reader of the Village Voice in the first place. He is a much better columnist than Mr. Hentoff, in my humble opinion.
Thanks
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Don DeBar 09/29/2010 6:04:00 PM
To amplify Matthew Pridham's comment, one would be well-served to look at the local press in Rockland and Orange counties (NY) coverage of controversies over the location of synagogues and the addition of territory to such as Kiryas Joel (NY). The hateful comments against and the vibrant defenses thereof for are easily applied here.
To paraphrase Pete Seeger - "Which side are you on?"
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Matthew Pridham 09/29/2010 4:12:00 PM
It seems pretty clear to me why the Imam cannot back down from his chosen site now: it would be a capitulation to the worst elements of American society, an action tantamount to caving in to terrorists (and many of these protesters are sounding more and more violent and fanatical every day). Imagine Jews being asked not to build a synagogue in some Southern city "Just cuz it scares us." Imagine how repulsive any advice to give into this bigotry would sound. Now apply topically.
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Tom 09/29/2010 11:39:00 AM
No disrespect to the dead but if the killing of four Israelis is the worst terror attack in four years, things seem pretty calm. Israel is a thuggish fascist nation and I really don't care if it turns into a sheet of glass along with teh rest of the Middle East. All these people and their stupid never-ending religious wars would make the world a better place by dying as soon as possible.Y
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Michael 09/29/2010 7:37:00 AM
Following your logic, if those uppity n*****s had just gone to the back of the bus, things would have been a lot more peaceful.
I wish we could get over this by now tacky "9/11" and "Ground Zero" rhetoric and face the facts of why the United States is (by its own efforts) the most hated nation on earth.
If all our chickens ever come home to roost, there won't be a building of more than three storeys standing from sea to shining sea.