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Beachshell 05/18/2012 10:56:00 PM
I chose my college (ASU) based on their generous scholarship package. Was it the most prestigious school I was accepted at? No. But I had a great experience, got a terrific education, graduated debt free in 2009, got a job offer in my chosen field prior to graduation, and bought a beautiful home two years later. Getting a degree is a financial descision designed to increase your future earning power. Unless you are independently wealthy it should br treated ss such.
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Yoda 05/13/2012 8:00:00 PM
I completely agree about this reading being required. I'm actually citing this article for my paper. I've always wanted to go to NYU in HS my brain was all fuzzy so I don't know what my major would have been. I wanted to go purely for prestige. I recently visited the greenwich village campus just 3 days and had those same silly ideas of enrolling. I made the right decision as a SUNY student who has finally figured out what to do, plus they don't offer my major as an undergrad.
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Yoda 05/13/2012 7:51:00 PM
You go, you! I'm proud you have overcome such a soul-crushing obstacle as homelessness. Something I have suffered from myself far more consistently than 7 times, and it pretty much still on-going. I became homeless in high school. I pulled myself through high school and am now a SUNY school student which has several campus in NYC. I still suffer from extreme poverty but your story gives me hope. Kudos.
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Yoda 05/13/2012 7:35:00 PM
@ 10drxtc
That was hilarious ( genuine)
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Former NYU Student 02/02/2012 9:18:00 PM
"You cannot give a 40 year old brain to a 17 year old"..this is the best comment yet.
At 36 and a few years shy of 40, I say this to myself every singe day as I understand things very clearly that were a huge mystery to me years ago. My ongoing prayer from now until the day I day is that the Lord show me things clearly TODAY--so that years from now I am not saying this type of thing yet again only as a 56 year old to my 36 year old self. Very true, very true.
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01/13/2012 2:48:00 AM
Michael sounds defensive? LMAO. It sounds to me like the defensive one is... You.
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MN 12/06/2011 11:33:00 PM
you are a very smart man
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Turk 12/06/2011 11:25:00 PM
... ok ok, my irritating "angry gangsta neo-populist stylz" not-withstanding (apologies to you NYU 08: I was trying to use you as the usual Village Voice whipping boy for daring to resort to the ever unpopular "this may not be the PC thing to say, but"; but apparently I can never get that part right) but you have to admit there may have actually been a worthwhile point or two there, which is surprising since the concept of debt is all but foreign to me as obviously I am just a childish, over-priviledged dork with too much time on his hands, just out to blog.
... eh ben, tant-pis!
That, my friends, is sad!
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Turk 12/06/2011 9:27:00 PM
... nope, I take it back- you're NOT cute, you're a goddamn snobby little know-nothing pretend-delusions-of-grandeur-success tool for the corp is what you are.
in other words, perfect prey for the school board recruit wingers, and yes- meat in the real world.
go right on thinking SAT's are generally higher at nyu for reasons OTHER than the fact that, also generally speaking (not to mention by your own admission) a terribly large portion of its student body comes from a life time of private schooling, of "selectivity" (i'm sure the likes of ye has come across that term more than a few times 'round the bend); to make this relevant to the underlying significance of the article- a lifetime of speculation, false numbers, and even more dubious bets.
that you feel you've gotten your buck's worth, to the tune of 150k no less- is totally besides the point: that the largest portion of our national debt is can be held by and consit of un-(re)payable student debt IS the point.
that a young cub in his or her twenties- regardless of the nature of his or her degree- can LEGALLY be made to take on so insurmountable and toxic a sum dough while them fat cat pockets get full, all at the expence of a healthy economy- THAT is the goddamn point.
... privatization, THAT is the fucking point, you little dweeb, and though i can not help but to think that in this sham the likes of you, impossibly naive yet ever more clueless, ever more apathetic- are the perpetrator, the truly and remarkably sad truth is even if eventually successful you will have been but able victim, and that- lil' homie- is some fucked up gangsta shit.
i will say this though, them regal nyu high class bitches sure like to get filthy after dark; i wonder how much THAT would cost, you know- if i were stupid enough to actually enroll there as opposed to just show up at the bar and pretend?
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Turk 12/06/2011 8:44:00 PM
"... furthermore, you forget I won't be a first year resident forever, I will be in a non-primary care specialty making a fairly decent income after finishing residency".
... OMG you're so cute!
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Jollybob99 12/04/2011 9:54:00 PM
Who would choose which citizens get the free education...you, perhaps? And for how many years. We don't need a country with an elite permanent scholar class chosen and funded by the worker bees tax dollars. Get a job a nd go to school in whatever order it takes....
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Jollybob99 12/04/2011 9:34:00 PM
I graduated NYU School of the Arts in 1976. I am the first to admit that I had no real talent and that the school should have dumped me out of there earlier. At that time the US wasnin a recession, we had a couple network tv stations and there were nonrealnfilm careers jobs that actually paid money. NYU would not even hire me as a file clerk...unqualified...did not teach alphabet at NYU. Anyway I owed about a years wages at the time...similar to what many new grads are facing now. Eventually found work in areas totally unrelated to major....went to biz school at Baruch College and that was one of the best investments I ever made....got MBA and my grad school career which cost about a years tuition at NYU back immediately. Paid off my loans. The lesson here is that you getbout of college what you put into it. Sometimes cost does notbequal quality. I tell prospective file and tv careerists now thatbthey should get a four year liberal arts degree or biz edge and take a summer 10 week boot camp in filmmaking if that is their career gaol or interest....you don't need four years especially in such a rapidly changing environment,....who would have thought just a few years ago that a 100 dollar camera, a computer, and some editing software one could actually make a feature film. You don't need a quarter million dollar education and loans. Just two cents from someone who has been there
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Allison Schwartz 12/03/2011 4:53:00 PM
Lyndsey, I feel your pain. Charging 8.5% is obscene, and Citi should be ashamed of itself. My loans were all federal, but I consolidated tham at 2.8% (dropping to 1.8% after several years of on-time payments). If mortgage rates are inder 5% and banks won't pay more than 1% for CDs, locking you in to 8.5% is disgusting.
I wish you luck.
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12/02/2011 2:01:00 AM
Hi Jim,
I did not mean to affront UMASS specifically (that was actually a slight misquote; I originally said 'state school'). My sister went to UMASS Amherst, and got a good education. However, she graduated with debt too, which has been just as difficult to pay. Granted, it is not in the same astronomical category as my debt, but she has had a much harder time finding a job, which could be for any number of reasons. I am glad you don't have the same debt burden; count yourself lucky.
The point of the article is not some sob story on my part; I am doing everything I can to pay, month after month, and surviving. The real issue here is NYU's imperial ambitions and a system that allows it to do what it has to me and many others like me, regardless of major, which is just plain wrong. The fact that NYU is responsible for the most student loan debt from any single institution in the country is significant. The lack of standard consumer protections have led NYU and many, many other schools to charge whatever they want, unchecked, and not necessarily offer a better education. Returning those; bankruptcy protection, statute of limitations, truth in lending laws, etc, is the only answer. Forgiveness is not going to happen, but what I do ask for is some sort of understanding.
-Lyndsey
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Derp 11/23/2011 10:31:00 PM
The average student debt when graduating from a private four year college is about $24K. I had close to that much when I graduated from University of Rochester in 2007. I paid it off 6 months ago. I've been employed since I graduated, but I've never made over 30K a year (PhD stipend....). As much as I hate to say it, the average debt burden isn't too bad, even on a minimal salary. It's these cases when we have institutions of higher learning that consistently graduate students with a massive loan burden that something needs to be done.
That the school is in bed with it's loan bank is gross and unethical, but chastising the school or the bank likely won't accomplish much. My thought is we should really encourage students to vote with their feet. I'm an alumni interviewer and I've been honest about the loan burden and how high it can potentially get, especially compared with average tuition for the state school my interviewees have available to them. 50K and up a year is a serious burden for anyone without substantial parental or scholarship money. We need to emphasize to the prospective applicant that ideally your total loan amount shouldn't be more than what you expect to make annually at your first job post-college (assuming you can even find one!) Maybe a high school class/seminar in getting into/paying for college would be useful....
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Caridad 11/22/2011 3:16:00 PM
The "work" of the supercommittee of 12 politicians pales in comparison to the burgeoning student movements across the country. Here are students who are willing to sacrifice themselves and their physical safety to call the public's attention to the way corporations are taking over the public university system. If only these 12 politicians were as responsive to the economic problems of their nation, if only they were willing to sacrifice their political ambitions for the greater good, then they would have gotten something done.
And yet, the fact that the supercommittee failed apparently means that they are deserving of a ridiculous amount of media attention, while this morning there is no mention of the fact that yesterday, at Baruch College, college students protesting tuition hikes while on-campus were beat with batons by campus police officers and then arrested by the NYPD.
Maybe the politicians aren't to blame if we and the media don't hold them up to a higher standard, the standard of community service and activism modeled by these public university students.
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/21/arrests-in-tuition-protest-at-baruch-college/
http://chronicle.com/article/At-Baruch-College-Tuition/129871/
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11/16/2011 8:23:00 PM
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11/16/2011 6:22:00 PM
Pretty much explains it... Graduate work there is a little different, particularly if you're an engineer. You need to make the right choices for yourself and understand what it is that you're getting.
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Sakara 11/16/2011 4:41:00 PM
one of a million dopes who went to college to be....A MOVIE MAKER!
HAHAHHAAHA
so many dopes pay good money in the hopes of making...movies!
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Alexander 11/15/2011 8:29:00 PM
Jim: NYU as an overall university is clearly more prestigious than UMass Amherst in just about all measurable categories; thus Lindsey is not funny for thinking that. Nobody ever called graduates of your alma mater riffraff, you are just overly insecure about the issue, so you get defensive.
I too disagree with loan forgiveness, but I fail to see how you and other UMass alums are currently paying for her glittering resume? The fact is you are not, student loans, unless they are pell grants for the needy, are not taxpayer subsidized, they are private. Lindsey's debt is her own, not yours or any other taxpayers. On the other hand, "snobby" NYU alumni in Massachusetts are paying plenty in taxes for your state university to even exist, so people like you go can go their without huge debt burdens that some of us incur. People in glass houses.....
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Jim Lane 11/15/2011 8:07:00 PM
I'm amused that Lyndsey finds her NYU degree more prestigious than one from UMass Amherst. I'm one of those who went to UMass Amherst -- first in my class in high school but I chose not to incur a huge debt burden. I graduated with a small outstanding loan and paid it off without hardship.
So now I and the other riffraff with UMass Amherst degrees are supposed to pay taxes so that Lyndsey can have a glittery resume? (The banks that made these rights have contractual rights that they certainly won't give up. Forgiveness would require that the government come up with the money.) Sorry, but no.
I'm childless but I'm OK with paying taxes to support public schools. I'm also OK with supporting public aid to higher education provided it's allocated fairly. Sorry, Lyndsey, but there are a lot of people who have stronger claims to my help than you do.
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11/15/2011 8:01:00 PM
actually i have lived in Palo Alto and it is quite a bit cheaper than NYC..though i do concede it is more expensive than Berkeley..
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Tribeca guy 11/15/2011 7:46:00 PM
What is your source for these "rankings"? Columbia as an overall university is ranked higher, but there are many areas of study where NYU is just as good or even better.
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NYU 08 11/15/2011 7:16:00 PM
Where was that stated? CUNY/SUNY was never a considersation for me as I am not from NY.
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NYU 08 11/15/2011 7:14:00 PM
You don't seem capable of writing in paragraphs and complete sentences as none of your posts contain such. If you were truly posting in this manner to make a point, eventually you would have switched to posting more "normally" but you didn't, which indicates you don't have the ability to.
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NYU 08 11/15/2011 7:03:00 PM
If you read my previous post, UC Berkeley was in fact an option, but it didn't appeal to me. Currently, Berkeley is ranked 21, NYU is 33, that's not a very substantial difference to overcome other aspects of NYU that I preferred like better location, nicer dorms, more private school feel as I was a prep school boy. NYU has a better student/faculty ratio than Berkeley (11:1 vs. 17:1) and a higher graduation rate (78% vs. 69%). My Berkeley friends had a lot more trouble getting classes whey wanted than I did, it was never an issue at NYU.
Stanford is indeed another a level from both Berkeley and NYU, and had I gotten in, I would have attended despite my desire to go to a school further away from my Bay Area home. I don't know where you get your stats, but Palo Alto has a very similar cost of living to Greenwich Village.
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NYU 08 11/15/2011 6:50:00 PM
Regarding your point #5, how do exactly you expect the university to use money to help students if you don't donate? You can't complain if you don't vote, in this case with your money. When you donate money as an alumnus, you can specify what it goes to (e.g. a particular NYU school, financial aid like the 1831 fund, the library, the gym, sports teams, etc). So while NYU no doubt raises a lot of money, in many cases the university doesn't have the choice of what to spend it on. Money often comes with strings, so its not as if the university always has a choice of more real estate vs. more financail aid. I would venture most billionaires and tycoons who donate large sums to NYU would rather have their name on a shiny new building than providing scholarships to needy students. Even though both new buildings and more scholarships are needed, the first is generally easier to obtain.
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11/15/2011 3:23:00 AM
i think it is you who are delusional fool..since when is it delusional to post the truth? areyou an NYU wanna be? like i said in an earlier post if you want to go brain to brain we will see who the delusional one is..but i know punks like you all talk and no action...
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11/15/2011 3:19:00 AM
it is typical of the elitist attitudes and sense of entitlement of NYU students..
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11/15/2011 3:16:00 AM
actually you're another one that need to learn how to read...i said columbia is ranked #6 and NYU ranked #37...and how does this contradict myself? based on NYU snobbery i was pointing out that their a many better universities than NYU...way to show everyone how you totally missed the point...and as i recall it was an NYU student looking down her nose at UMass (ranked #94)...being on the receiving end many times of this NYU snobbery i will return the favor as often as possible...
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FactsVFiction 11/15/2011 1:00:00 AM
As a NYU undergrad, I graduated in 1990. I was $3K in debt. However, and this is important I had 2 scholarships and grants, and worked my entire time at NYU. I went to public school in East NY Bklyn, and was the youngest (the 4th child) to go to NYU.
My single mother raised me and at the time I was attending she made roughly $33K a year. I say this to set the context for you, so that people understand how NYU really works.
Here's the thing, and don't hate me for stating what I knew before I graduated and applied for NYU, and have experienced my entire professional life since graduating: (Now that I'm 42):
1. NYU isn't for you if you don't have the money upfront or the grades to get scholarships. Period. It's just not. Clearly the BUSINESS model they've put in place is to get money OR achievement from their students.
NYU isn’t stupid; they don’t want a high-drop out rate because that means the number of SUCCESSFUL NYU graduates would decline.
What they want are students like me or my extremely wealthy friends, with wealthy parents or amazing grades. Notice I don’t say AND. Based on the article, what I experienced while attending is still true. There were very wealthy students who had mediocre grades but would graduate and by using the connections of their parents go on to get high paying jobs and be wealthy alums. There were students, (like me) who academically got into NYU with SOME of the cash but mostly scholarships and grants. We would have to work during our time at NYU and wouldn’t have the “campus experience” but would get a good education, make long term friends and leave with a diploma that was a passport to INTERVIEWS THROUGHOUT THE WORLD.
2. Lastly, there are the students in the article—I’m saddened to see that’s still going on. Yes, people this is not new. Students who flat-out cannot afford to go to NYU. They can get in, but academically (and I do not say this to be an asshole, or condescending or anything like that, I’m just hoping that some HS senior reads this and rethinks their strategy) they will not get the DEBTFREE financial help they will need to fully last the 4 years without going into life crushing debt.
Candidly, I believe most of these students DON’T know what they’re getting into. I think they believe that the NYU diploma, alone is enough, but it is entirely dependent upon what your major is, what you’re grades are upon graduating, and whether or not you have you been making contacts in your field since high school (yes, HS and with the internet it sure as hell is easier than when I was a 16 year student carefully typing letters to businesses for internships for when I was in college.)
3. So, scholarship money, me working my entire time at NYU and money from my mother covered portions of my tuition. My mother died making $46K a year, so by no stretch of the imagination would my family be considered rich. However, based on my salary now: roughly $98K, and my 9th career, I got exactly what I wanted from NYU: a top notch education and immediate recognizable entrée to just about every HR department I want. I am not unique. The same can be said for my sisters and my best friend who went on to change his career to become a scientist. There is not an interview I have gone to that didn’t at some point include a conversation on what I learned at NYU and other prestigious people who have gone there. It is impressive whether it is working for you right now, or not.
4. Important, please note I graduated during the recessionary period of Bush Sr. I left NYU and took a full commission job to cut my teeth in the Financial industry. I walked holes in my shoes running to potential client meetings and made roughly 100 cold calls a day. Graduating in a recession FUCKING SUCKS. I have nothing but empathy for all these new grads facing a much worse situation than I did; much worse. Basically, these are young people who got totally HOSED by adults absolutely screwing up the economy. (People, these students didn’t create poisoned assets; be fair and realistic here and stop erroneously saying they should have known adults older and smarter than them were going to fucking hose the economy.)
However, please, please, please don’t lose confidence in the work you did and what you learned. After the recession, the NYU name on the diploma put me on the short list for every job I ever applied for, which was EXACTLY what I wanted.
5. Last, but certainly not least, I will never give NYU a dime of alumni money no matter what my salary. Not a dime. I want them to use the money to help the students who have a real desire to learn and qualified for getting into NYU, but don’t have all the funds.
They will never use my money for that as they strive for an ever increasing land grab.
I hope this helps.
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CUNY 11/15/2011 12:50:00 AM
*med school
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CUNY 11/15/2011 12:49:00 AM
Yeah, because you can't get into a pre-med school if you go to a CUNY or a SUNY.
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CUNY 11/15/2011 12:47:00 AM
lol someone's suffering from severe delusions
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Manuel 11/15/2011 12:09:00 AM
If you've been out of school for ten years and you're still impressed by a school's prestige, there's something wrong with you.
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Manuel 11/15/2011 12:03:00 AM
Anyone who pays $50,000 per year for a degree in education or art must either be rich or have a screw loose.
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Interesting_montreal 11/14/2011 9:50:00 PM
Bissonette is right with his New England in January analogy. Here's another - lease a Jag or Porsche for 4 years with postponed payments and then complain about how in hock you are after all those nice drives.
Free Shakespeare lesson: "Neither a borrower nor a lender be."
One more point: if you really want to borrow, examine the career propects you will have upon graduation. Poetry is wonderful, but very few poets will earn a living being a pro poet, never mind paying back large loans.
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Triebeca guy 11/14/2011 4:29:00 PM
Contradict yourself much? In another post in this thread you blast NYU for being ranked in "only" the 30s compared to Columbia at 10, yet the difference between NYU and UMass is far greater (30s vs. barely top 100, if even). Why are others "pretentious snobs" for making the same comparisons as you?
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11/14/2011 4:28:00 AM
I turned down NYU for SUNY Binghamton. My parents refused to allow me to take out massive loans for NYU and I followed their advice and my loan debt from Binghamton was much lower. I cant thank them enough for their wise advice, and for the advice recommended by books similar to that of Zac Bassinette (or whatever his name is, my bad). The funny thing is I met at least 5 NYU transfers at SUNY that admitted the school was too expensive and not worth the cost for their career goals. I was admitted to 90% of the law schools I applied to, and enrolled at a school that had many NYU alums (guess its not too hard what law school I graduated from), but the only difference is that my total student loan debt was only $50K whereas my classmates from NYU undergrad will owe payments that exceed my mortgage payment right now...so I think this article really hits home...And I cant help but giggle that the reputation about NYU is still the same as when I was a high school student in the early 90s (snobby midwest kids with rich parents). NYU is a fantastic school but not for the student who needs financial aid, or doesnt have family money to pay the tuition bill, plain and simple.
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11/14/2011 2:47:00 AM
Yeah, did you read the part about how these students are $300,000 in debt? What part-time job did you have exactly?
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11/13/2011 10:30:00 PM
I have read that students typically spend more time selecting a college than an occupation. Obviously, the second will be a far greater part of the your life and will determine your income, benefits, and happiness to a degree,
We boomers typically had our parents foot the bill, but times have changed. College costs have skyrocketed while the income of parents stagnated. Large education debts are very common today.
In these troubled times, I would urge young people to carefully consider their futures. Talk to people in your intended fields. See if there are opportunities there and how much the pay is. Is the field contacting or growing? Changing fields in middle age is difficult and often involves starting over at the bottom. Making the right choice early on is important.
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Guest 11/13/2011 9:02:00 AM
I went to NYU, had a part time job and a part time internship for a total of 45 hours a week on top of full time classes. Lots of "kids these days" aren't lazy or expecting things to be handed to them, but I still have a massive amount of debt. I made a foolish decision to go to NYU at 17 and I sorely regret it as I haven't pursued a career that can really justify the expenditure. I think putting down an entire generation is wrong. My age has little to do with my work ethic. And your post misses out on the fact that as you said, it's KIDS that are making a $300,000 decision most times with little counseling or financial advice.
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11/12/2011 11:37:00 PM
I agree NYU is an expensive private college, but they lure top students in with partial scholarships and low interest loans with banks that they have partnered with. NYU is the #1 property owner in Manhattan, with campuses in Florence Italy and elsewhere. Tuition in the United States has increased twice the rate of inflation and some private schools have become predatory. Plus, students are graduating into the worst job market since the Great Depression. They didn't have crystal balls! This trillion dollar debt will crush the next generation.
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11/12/2011 7:26:00 PM
can you say pretentious snob? if i was in that position i would throw all NYU applications in the garbage where they belong...
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11/12/2011 7:21:00 PM
don't you mean UC Berkeley?
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caroline 11/12/2011 6:59:00 PM
Unless your parents are loaded, spending that amount of money to become a cinematographer is a HUGE gamble, nature films no less. The friends I have who have 'made it' in the arts - (as in at age 40 they can now pay their bills, have health insurance and savings), did so via working for nothing and building relationships and learning their craft early on. If you have this amount of debt that is not feasible Degrees (business, law, accounting) where companies come to campus to interview for decent starting salary positions, these schools probably make sense. For many degrees offered, it just doesn't. To take on that amount of debt in hopes to shoot nature films....Im sorry but that is beyond naive.
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Acdocgirl 11/12/2011 5:15:00 PM
Sorry but I have no sympathy. Why the hell can't these kids get a part-time job while they're in school??? When I was in university, I took out a student loan too but I spent only what I needed and the rest went into a savings account. Then I got a job on campus because they allowed me to work around my class schedule. While other students were partying at Spring Break and traveling during summer vacations, I was working in offices, warehouses, stores, waiting tables, etc. anything to make money. After I graduated, I still had some debt left and there weren't any jobs available in my field (I studied film) so I worked at a dead-end office job. It wasn't the most exciting job but it paid my bills. Once I was completely debt-free, I took several months off and interned at different media outlets, which put me in contact with people in the TV and film industry. Now I work for myself and am making good money. The problem with kids these days is that they want everything served to them on a silver platter right away and don't want to work hard for it. And they also live beyond their means. I see so many students with iPods, expensive phones, laptops, etc.
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11/12/2011 9:17:00 AM
the overall ranking of NYU here is 33 and columbia is 4
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/spp+50
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11/12/2011 9:06:00 AM
UC Berkeley would have been far cheaper and still ranked higher than NYU ...the cost of living is also far cheaper than here in NYC...even stanford (ranked 3) is a much better school and cheaper not to mention the lower cost of living in Palo Alto
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11/12/2011 9:01:00 AM
i write how i like to write and my sentences are perfectly readable and understandable. as for my second reason for posting as i do': i knew it was just a matter of time before it would bother one of the arrogant NYU students who bothered to respond..it is always the NYU way to try to look for mistakes they can pick on...but you fail just like you fail at even basic reading as you posted inaccurate things in your post that i never said or claimed...and i am not here to impress you NYU morons just get the idea across of what selfish lowlife scum you people are and i don't need to make everything all pretty to get that message across...the one who looks for supposed mistakes is the one who has no logical argument to counter what i have said...if you think the "quality of the post"s has to do with intellectual capacity the we can meet anytime you want and engage brain to brain...i loved and still love putting you snobs in your place...
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Tribeca guy 11/11/2011 8:23:00 PM
Bill Gates doesn't even have a college degree and is now a billionaire, what's your point? That its possible to make 6 figures from UM Amherst? Nobody has said it isn't, but that quote is absolutely spot on accurate, NYU will give you more overall options than UMass, compare the alumni lists on each school, its not even a contest, NYU's is far more prominent. NYU's admission standards are higher, and far more organizations recruit at NYU, these are simple facts, not opinions. This doesn't mean UMass is a bad place, but its not elitist to state people are more likely to look at a resume from College A than College B. You seem very defensive about the school you went to.
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Paragon 11/11/2011 8:12:00 PM
So Harvard = Bumblecity Community College? I think not.
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NYU 08 11/11/2011 8:07:00 PM
Are being a "science person", which I am if you read my other posts, and being able to construct a gramatically coherent argument mutually exclusive concepts? Nobody is asking you to quote Chaucer, just to use complete sentences. If you went to Columbia and come with posts of this quality, my opinion of your alma mater just tanked.
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NYU 08 11/11/2011 7:59:00 PM
I can unequivocally say the expense was worth it. While no doubt important, there is more than cost when deciding on a school. Being from the bay area, I preferred something further from home, so Berkeley is out (though I would have gone to Stanford, which is clearly a superior school). I don't like UCLA much and like the city of Los Angeles even less, so its out. Again, most people from my private school just didn't do state schools, so these places didn't have much appeal. You have to consider demographics and taste because NYU caters to a different crowd than for example Hunter; NYU is far more geogrphically diverse and affluent, and even though its un-PC to say, in general smarter if you go by average SAT scores. NYU students come from all over the world, not just NY, and you seem to saying they should have all go to state schools in their respective jurisdictions, which sounds looney, by your logic, why even have private colleges at all?
I have already argued NYU isn't for everyone but it worked for me and many many others I know. Me personally, I have $150K in total debt, about 50K of that is from NYU (the rest is from med school, perhaps you feel I should have skipped that too), so my NYU debt is actually a little more than the average NYU grad with $35K as the article indicates. In the long run, this will not make a difference in my lifestyle, there are some doctors who spend this on sports cars and home renovations. Almost everyone from US medical schools goes into higher paying specialites and not primary care, and loans are a reason for many, but that's another discussion
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Bugg 11/11/2011 6:16:00 PM
Again, this read like someone trying to conviince hismelf the expense was worth it. If you could get into UCLA or Berkeley, you would've received at least as good an education at a more reasonable cost. And if you start arguing about demographics and the amrketing of an educational institution rather than a hard cost benefit analysis, you have lost this argument.
In fact NYU did work for me, since I was mostly on scholarship. But I never would've went there otherwise.
For someone who has not yet started working, you are very confident paying these loans back will be a ground ball, and that it will have no impact whatsoever on your lifestyle. Good luck with that. But it is contradicted by the life experiennce of damn near anyone in that situation.
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Tribeca guy 11/11/2011 6:11:00 PM
By what definition are you claiming NYU is number 37? The biz school, the film school, the math department, the econ department, the law school, and philosophy are all among the top in their areas, perhaps not #1, but clearly higher than 37 in most cases. True, NYU has a bunch of schools like Steinhardt school of Education and general studies that bring it down overall, but it has some pretty strong departments where the education is as good as any you'll recieve.
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Tribeca guy 11/11/2011 6:02:00 PM
Thank for you for that extremely general and useless commentary. The fact is most undergrads don't have much significant work experience and you can't be sure if they "have the chops to do the job" until you actually hire them. Another fact is, far more companies recruit at NYU than UMass. Also, if you haven't met a person and just look at their resume from a whole pile, I can assure you that all other things being equal, a person from NYU is far more likely to get an interview opportunity than someone from UMass, you are deluded if you think otherwise.
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Hkguy 11/11/2011 5:46:00 PM
Hired, not fired
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NYU 08 11/11/2011 5:46:00 PM
My math is just fine, I don't believe my loans are that bad, a doctor with a good income in certain specialties can pay that entire amount off in a year, not that I'm going to do that, but I'm not losing any sleep over loans.
I went to a private high school, and people were far more likely to go to USC or Stanford than one of the UCs even coming from CA. Out of state privates that were popular in my high school were NYU, BU, Georgetown, GW, Emory, Duke and a handful of others. I've never been to a public school in my life wasn't going to start with college. My point was if I went the state school route, I would do a UCLA or Berkeley, not a SUNY or CUNY, neither of which really appeal to me even if I was from NY.
When looking at my classmates, I think the people who do best at NYU are people going into certain fields..wall street, law school, med school, and flim if you make it big and/or people who get some help from family. I will agree that if you are doing something artsy and don't make it big and aren't getting any help from your parents, or if you are going to be a school teacher, NYU might not be ideal for you. However, for you to make a blanket statement like "should have went X SUNY or Y" is pretty dumb since NYU caters to a much different demographic than most of these public schools you mentioned (might have been different in your day). Not every college student has the same needs, wants circumstances, and career goals, so NYU doesn't work for some, works well for others...I guess you fall in the former group, and I fall in the later.
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Hkguy 11/11/2011 5:45:00 PM
Sorry, Lindsay, but you should have gone to UMass. I have fired several recent undergraduates in the past few years. Aside from seeing if they got a degree, their school is the least important aspect of their resume. More important is their work history and whether they have the chops to do the job.
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Bugg 11/11/2011 3:29:00 PM
If you left California and one of the good UC schools for NYU for the experience coupled with $150K in debt, you need to take some extra math courses The interest compounds, and it will be worse if you defer payment. And CUNY is open to almost anyone.
But I'd admit NYU sounds way cooler than Hunter or Brooklyn. Until you start paying abck your loans.
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NYU 08 11/11/2011 2:47:00 PM
Again, like I said, being from CA, I would never apply to a CUNY or SUNY school, I wouldn't get tuition disounts there and the CA state schools (UCLA, Berkeley) are better anyway. NYU however is an experience many on the west coast want to have. In fact, the vast majority of NYU students aren't from New York, so they too will not get the tuition discounts you mention. Thus your analysis doesn't apply to most who are at the school today. Is NYU for everyone? Of course not, no school is. But can one get an awesome experience there with unique opportunities? Absolutely. I don't know of any other school where one can take pre-med courses aborad (London), NYU has changed a lot since you were there. Real estate acquisition is required to build better facilities, have you seem Kimmel or the Gramercy Green dorm? They are quite amazing.
To address your personal retort: Yes, I realize I will be a first year resident making peanuts, less than minimum wage perhaps if you break it down by hours, but my loan bills won't be anywhere near 3500 a month. I wont be starting a family until I finish my training, Furthermore, you forget I won't be a first year resident forever, I will be in a non-primary care specialty making a fairly decent income after finishing residency. A big factor in that increased income potential is going to a good college like NYU, which provided an atmosphere for getting into a good med school. Education is a good investment for many.
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11/11/2011 9:43:00 AM
also that is an english thing and i was more of a science person: neuroscience' pharmacology, psychology and physics to name a few things i was interested in...but hey, anytime you want to go brain to brain your on ;P NYU students like you are easy because you think you are so much better and smarter than everyone else that you will under estimate me while over estimating your abilities..
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11/11/2011 9:36:00 AM
don't need to when talking to intellectually inferior NYU students who obviously can't read..
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Conservativegrad 11/11/2011 2:33:00 AM
Fmatosjr - Thanks for the reply. Great explanation and expansion on the topic.
Much better than Libertarian Grad who claims he's a libertarian (probably because he wants to legalize marijuana) but in actuality he/she is nothing more than a liberal parasite. Not that all liberals are parasites. Please don't go taking that out of context too.
Hey libertarian grad - do you actually read comments before you comment on them? Really. First of all, true supply and demand is NOT allowed to function when Washington DC is guaranteeing these loans. And I am not complaining about Ivy League tuition either. It is more impacting to the average Joe who just wants to go to an average school.
I just think it's hilarious that these students whine about the cost of their tuition when it's their government programs which is the cause. The liberal elitists not only don't know what they don't know. But they don't know that they don't know what they don't know. Giggle.
I'm done here. I need to go back to work and be productive so I can pay for your mortgage when you default on it. I have a hunch that's they type of tool you are. Maybe I will hire an NYU grad next year. Not. :)
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Bugg 11/11/2011 2:18:00 AM
If you in fact got into med school, good for you.I did in fact get a quality education at the Tisch (now Stern) School of Business. And for finance(and now with Poly on board) NYU has some quality "hard" undergrad programs.I would have had no problem getting a job on Wall Street had I wanted to do that instead of law. If you expect to go into engineering, medicine or finance, suspect you can still get a good education there. But a damn expensive one. And "We're #37!" isn't exactly a rallying cry.
I don't think then or now whether a school is mostly commuters or pays through the nose with crushing debt affects the quality of education. If you apply yourself at Brooklyn or Hunter or St. John's (all decent quality local commuter-oriented schools) you can also get a quality ediucation without so much debt. Possibly all the people being on campuss gives the adminsistration a better chance to convince the students they are special and this expense is worth it. Problem is from Brademas to Oliva to the present the school adminstration believe gobbling up Manhattan real estate makes the school great. They view the building boon as a matter of prestige. And the unprecedented and unjustified tuition increases are simply financing the building spree that has little or nothing to do with education.
NYU was attracting that kind of teaching talent then. But then and now based on various lawsuits it still has a whole bunch of GAs doing the actual teaching(hopefully their command of English is better than in the 1980s). At these prices that is unconscionable.
We both know as the article indicates NYU has a whole lot of film majors and liberal arts undergrads with bleak job prospects upon graduation. And all that debt, employed or not, means they cannot get a car loan or a mortgage. Starting a family would be a hardship. And for those people taking on that kind of debt when you can in fact get a comparable or better education at CUNY/Brooklyn or Hunter or SUNY schools at a fraction of that cost is a major mistake.
I'm not at all bitter, I am realistic. As someone else said sadly you cannot give a 40-year old brain to a 17-year old. "Educational experience"- possibly you are trying to convince yourself. Objectively NYU is not "second to none". $150K debt is no big deal; sure. Give us a call when you're an 1st year resident in a municipal hospital ER paying $3500 a month in loans in addition to your monthly bills.
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11/10/2011 10:26:00 PM
Great story with many lessons. In '76 while living on W15th I heard how you could live like a king in Brooklyn for the price of Manhattan. But to me, the character of the Village far outweighed any savings by leaving.
As for the judgment of the NYU decision to max out their expenditure, I can't judge how much was necessity or how much was an issue of personal pride and prestige. But there is a great story about a large successful farm in Nebraska back in the 20's. They had raked in tremendous profits for years. When an opportunity came to expand the farm, the owner's wife wisely told her husband that the future may bring untold hardship: that it is better to have less with a nest egg than risking all on a presumption. A year later, the stock market crashed, and that farm survived the great depression comfortably.
These decisions are best led by the stories of history. The knowledge of history is our best resource for planning our future. My favorite is the story of Joseph in Egypt where he stored Egypt's food for 7 years in preparation for the 7 years of famine that he was given foreknowledge would come to threaten the land. America has yet to learn this lesson.
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11/10/2011 9:29:00 PM
http://www.villagevoice.com/2011-11-09/news/debt-and-debtor/
"Lyndsey" should not be so quick to disparage UMass Amherst--she may have achieved a better outcome in the UMass / Five College Film Studies program. Students in this program have won the short section at Cannes (Ausbury, "The Debt,"); become major film distributors and producers, even judges and honorees at Sundance (Jason Kliot, currently co-president of Marck Cuban's HDNet Films and a partner in Deutsch/Open City Films [also founder of City Harvest]; made an award-winning documentary on Derrida (Amy Ziering); gained tenured professorships in film (Patrick Rumble/ UWisconsin); been accepted in the MFA filmmaking program at Chapman University CA (Jonada Jashari); and several others been awarded scholarships to NYU Tisch. These are but a small sample of students who followed all Prof. Jennifer Arlene Stone's film courses taught at UMass and whom she guided and advised. See also "Auteurs" and "Psychopathology of Everyday Violence: Death of Cinema" plus more apps and books and paperbacks on THE APP on javari http://javari.com Free Universal for all devices In 165 countries New York NY
G.A.
Tel Aviv & London
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11/10/2011 9:00:00 PM
"Lyndsey" should not be so quick to disparage UMass Amherst--she may have achieved a better outcome in the UMass / Five College Film Studies program. Students in this program have won the short section at Cannes (Ausbury, "The Debt,"); become major film distributors and producers, even judges and honorees at Sundance (Jason Kliot, currently co-president of Marck Cuban's HDNet Films and a partner in Deutsch/Open City Films [also founder of City Harvest]; made an award-winning docuymentary on Derrida (Amy Ziering); gained tenured professorships in film (Patrick Rumble/ IUWisconsin); been accepted in the MFA filmaking program at Chapman Univeristy CA (Jonada Jashari); and several others been awarded scholarships to NYU Tisch. These are but a small sample of students who followed all Prof. Jennifer Arlene Stone's film courses taught at UMass. See also "Auteurs" and "Psychopathology of Everyday Violence: Death of Cinema" plus more apps and books and paperbacks on THE APP on javari http://javari.com Free Universal for all devices In 165 countries New York NY
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11/10/2011 7:28:00 PM
actually your wrong NYU is 36 and columbiais 6 and harvard was 1 and mit was 4...regardless it is apparent you have not read all of the comments otherwis you would not have made the stupid comments you did...i am far from sheltered and my hatred of NYU is not irrational...i had to deal with their arrogance everyday from being told that i should commit suicide to being told how superior they were because they were going to NYU..i even had one arrogant professor try to get me kicked out of a internet cafe (which failed because i knew everyone...these employees used to make fun of her because she was a germaphobe who had to disinfect everything...yet this stuck up arrogant nasty bitch had no problem spitting on me...my hatred is not irrational because it has been basedon hundreds of actual experiences over 6 years...maybe you should read my other comments before making dumb responses...
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Lsbleaky1838 11/10/2011 6:16:00 PM
I spent my first two years at NYU before transferring to CUNY-Hunter purely because of money reasons. I don't regret it for one instant, and my opportunities after graduation (and job position now) is no worse, and in many cases better than people I went to NYU with. NYU wasn't a complete waste of time, but it was a total waste of money. I incurred no debt at Hunter, but will be paying off my 2 years of NYU debt basically forever. I was also accepted to grad school and Columbia, but turned it down because of the money. I'm not sure if that was the wrong decision, but it probably wasn't.
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11/10/2011 5:05:00 PM
Education in a civilized state would be free to those who could benefit from it. They would then work for the state for at least two non consecutive years in appropriate ways.
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11/10/2011 4:25:00 PM
And true to NYU hipster form, the students there were "occupying" before anyone else was.
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AS Kruthika 11/10/2011 4:00:00 PM
I agree with what Zac Bissonnette said about choosing better, though at 17-18 these decisions aren't easy to make. There is the prestige that comes with attending NYU to consider and peer pressure. If all their friends are going to NYU or even similar universities, the thought process is 'why shouldn't I?' As a graduate student from India (currently in Boston, at Emerson) I can relate to this peer pressure part of it. Everyone I know has a master's degree from either the UK, US or Australia, and while I didn't exactly come here because of peer pressure, it was definitely on my mind while applying to Emerson.
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Aa1521 11/10/2011 3:52:00 PM
Being an NYU Alumna, I can personally attest to this. NYU was not worth the debt that I have now. I am blessed to be in a field that I love but it took a year of struggle to get here. in today's economy, you have two options: go back to school to get your masters or go back to school to get your masters. I could have received the same education at a CUNY school and ended up with very little to no debt. you go to these expensive institutions for their name, thinking that the "prestige" alone will pay for itself. But at the end, you end up with the bill feeling completely disillusioned.
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Frank 11/10/2011 2:46:00 PM
You have a pretty twisted sense of reality or just have a very sheltered upbringing. Your other comments also seem to indicate an irrational hatred of NYU. There are about 3000 institutions of higher learning in the US, NYU is ranked 30, Columbia is 10, so yes they are both very much elite places that most average Americans will never have acess to, in what world do you live in where its otherwise? I haven't attended NYU or any of the schools you mentioned, but I know they all have some very prominent alumni lists, so its no surprise you found elitists there.
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NYU '08 11/10/2011 2:37:00 PM
Didn't they teach how to use paragraphs, sentences and punctuation marks at Columbia?
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NYU '08 11/10/2011 2:15:00 PM
I'm sorry but things have changed since 1986 and a lot of what you said is flat out inaccurate which leads me to believe you are just bitter. First off, the majority of NYU students now live on campus and vitrtually all freshman do. Secondly there is no comparison between CUNY/SUNY and NYU, NYU's student body is clearly superior in every objective measure, just as Yale is better than NYU, there is nothing wrong with saying it. However, most people from NYU today aren't even from New York, so they would never consider CUNY/SUNY; example: I'm from the Bay Area, and besides NYU, other schools I applied to were Stanford (1st choice, didn't get in), UC Berkeley, USC, Boston U, Georgetown, Pepperdine, and U of Michigan. As far as parties, the NYU area has more bars per capita than probably any in America and many dorm rooms are large enough for kegs and beer pong tables, so I fail to see your point.
I took on debt to go to NYU, and found the education to be second to none. You are wrong about there only being a few good grad programs, there are in fact many great undergrad programs today (again not sure about when you were there, things change). I was pre-med, but I majored in economics and one of my ex-profs just won the nobel prize this year (google it). I got into a top 20 medical school, which I am also currently taking on debt for. When I finish with medical school, inclding undergrad, I will have about 150K in debt, but I know its well worth it, not only for income potential, but for edcuational experience itself.
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InDebt 11/10/2011 1:26:00 PM
http://thesecrettogettingajobaftercollege.com/
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Macequipment 11/10/2011 1:00:00 PM
No it's not worth it, people talk about criminal business operations, take a look at many of these universities. Unbelivable administration expenses, high six figure professors with lifetime benefit packages, the waste is obviious. But it's a giant scam, you apply for a loan, the school gets the money, the student defaults on the loan, the taxpayors take the hit. Universities got a great thing going here, they can do whatever they want, pay themselves whatever they want with no accountability to anyone.
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11/10/2011 8:47:00 AM
http://www.facebook.com/lyndseyp
found you
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11/10/2011 7:45:00 AM
that was one of the few saving graces of NYU was that a handful of cool students would give me a chic-fil-a
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11/10/2011 7:41:00 AM
how do you think you can even put NYU in the same league as harvard or columbia? both are top 10 ivy league schools and last i checked NYU is ranked 36 and not ivy league...also NYU accepts 35% of all applicants where as harvard and columbia (also yale M.I.T. etc..) accept about 10% of applicants...i heard one NYU girl moaning about the fact she was only at NYU because Brown rejected her (another ivy league school with a higher ranking than NYU)...when someone says they go to MIT or Harvard or Columbia you automatically think they are smart when they say i go to NYU you think rich elitist snob who has money..most of the people who i met while homeless who were truly smart either dropped out (lack of money) or transfered (Harvard, Columbia, cornell and UCI to name a few) the few good ones that stayed are all graduated...NYU is an ivy league wanna be with stuck up snobs some of whom i got to put in their place as you can read in my main response to this article..
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11/10/2011 7:30:00 AM
and many of these snobs had mommy and daddies credit cards with thousands of dollars and they would cry poverty when they were down to their last $1,000 with a month to go..boo hoo...
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11/10/2011 7:27:00 AM
and i would bet you are the more intelligent one as well..
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11/10/2011 5:03:00 AM
i have no sympathy for these elitist snobs...when i was homeless on 7 different occasions NYU students suggested to me that suicide was the solution to my problems (and that was not long after 7 of them committed suicide and they put barriers up in the Bobst library)...they were such pretentious snobs that one of them even said (with a hateful sneer and ipod and laptop computer in hand) that i was living such a good life because someone had given me a half eaten salad and half a redbull..another one said to me that he was better and smarter than me because he went to NYU and i was homeless (which i proved him wrong about)...thought their were some good ones most of them either dropped out or transfered to other schools...a few of the good ones did film documentaries and actually got some of this elitist behaviour on film....the greatest moment came when a professor i knew invited me to take his classes at columbia university (2 semesters)..2 NYU students told their class/professor who said that they should not believe a homeless guy..i invited them to film me in my classes at columbia and after they talked to and filmed my neuro professor..it was great to hear how that NYU professor and other students were put in their place...but the best overall was the day i entered the tisch building (with a columbia university t-shirt) and hung out on the 11th floor (to the surprise of several students (including one friend and one stuck up redhead)..on the way back down the student who berated me for living the good life saw me on the elevator and was stunned and didn't get on...i waited down stairs and confronted the arrogant ass in front of his friends..i reminded him that i was at the better school (ranked 6th and NYU is ranked 37th)...it is this arrogant attitude (which i did not see at columbia) that will stop NYU from ever entering the top 20 universities...i could go on and on about all the B.S. of these snobs but i have said enough...if you don't like it then go to a better school like columbia or yale or harvard (all top 10) and they are all 10,000 or more a year cheaper..but i forgot NYU students are not smart enough to get into these elite schools...
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11/10/2011 3:30:00 AM
This should be required reading before enrolling at NYU. It's a great university with a ton to offer, but it's on you to make sure you're getting what you want out of it. I'll be working into my 30's to pay off my NYU loans, and I know I won't get to do or buy some of the things I would have wanted. But the experience has also been life-altering, and I chose a field that actually does give me the earning potential to pay my loans back before I start graying.
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Sarah Moore 11/10/2011 2:56:00 AM
Banks absolutely tell you that you have to pay it back.
"There needs to be more information from universities and the government and even from banks—you know, 'Are you sure you want to take on this debt to get this degree? It's not free. It seems free now, maybe, but you're going to have to pay it back.'"
THEY DO TELL YOU. You have to sign lots of papers that say this exact thing. And a loan is a loan, clearly you have to pay it back. I'm a current NYU senior so I get where they're coming from but this article is completely whiny and unbalanced.
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Bugg 11/10/2011 1:09:00 AM
I graduated NYU in 1986 with a degree in accounting, At that time less than 10% of the school lived on campus. Even then it was among the most expensive colleges. Going to law school locally dropped my tuiition. And at those prices we still got stuck with graduate assistants with ESL problems in many math and computer courses. They probably were making next to nothing and happy to get a credential, but students were stuk trying to figure out what the hell the teacher was saying.
Since then it became a real acquisition company using a college for cover and revenue. And that goes double for the fools who now live in and around Washington Square atr ridiculous rentals. . It is scandalously expensive with tuition increases more than doubling inflation forever.
Simply NYU doesn't have a cache like an Ivy school. It has some great graduate programs . But any number of more reasonable local colleges and SUNY and CUNY schools are just as good. Hunter and Brooklyn Colleges are both great CUNY undergrad schools without an absurd cost. They do not have great party scenes, but if you are looking for that, NYU s not the place for you anyway.
I have 2 sons, one of college age one of middle school age. The eldest isn't academically inclined and is working costruction and taking civil service tests like FDNY. As to the little guy, evene saving a lot in a 529 doesn't cut it for NYU. Suspect he would be more likely to go to a SUNY school or 2 years in CUNY and then figure it out elsewhere.
Bottom line-in a wrod, no.You would have to be clinically insane to go into that much debt for an NYU degree. Better figure out what you want to do or at least do so someplace more reasonable. Because unless you are a genius once you start working where you went to college matters less and less.
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11/10/2011 12:34:00 AM
Wow...you will probably never see something like this in the media..NYU is always portrayed as a school were tuition is no headache...makes you think twice why not just get a degree in a fairly great school anywhere in the US and then move to NYC how do you think Brooklyn became what it is right now? Most people who live in NYC aren't from NYC and that includes their education.
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11/09/2011 11:29:00 PM
That actually looks like it might jsut work. Wow.
totally-anon.at.tc
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UMasshole 11/09/2011 8:51:00 PM
What's wrong with UMass Amherst? You can go there and take classes at Hampshire, Smith, Amherst College, Mt. Holyoke, for a third of the price of NYU. This is snobbery. I don't feel bad one bit for this person and her miserable life. Get real. If you can't afford something, don't do it. This is the whole problem with America. Everyone believes the hype but then doesn't want to deal with reality.
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Fmatosjr 11/09/2011 7:26:00 PM
Well I agree with the fact that the government should stop backing student loans and allow them to be bankrupted if people really need to do so. I agree because they are guaranteed they cost of college will continue to grow beyond the worth of the education. But here is a history lesson. The Health Education Assistance Act if 1963 allowed middle to low income families the ability to borrow from the government to go to school. Now in 1976 i believe congress made it that you can't bankrupt your loans until after 5 years or repayment. Sounds logical. But they made this decision saying it was because people were becoming doctors and lawyers and then filing and abusing it. The research shows that not even a whole 1% was doing that. But I still agreed with the 5 year mark. Then later in the 80's they said 7 years. Then again they changed it to that you can't bankrupt it. Since that law was passed in 1993 tuition from 1993-2010 went up 493%. That is ridiculous and showed how bad an idea it was to take away bankruptcy protections from student loans. Not to mention that in 2005 the republican controlled house received the most lobbying from Sallie Mae to make PRIVATE STUDENT LOANS non-dischargable in bankruptcy. This caused an even bigger jump in tuition. Private loans are like any other unsecured debt and should be treated as such. The tax payer is not on the hook for those. The risk should be assumed by both sides. Not just one party. Federal loans at least work with you and allow you to have a life. Private ones don't. HR 2028 needs to be passed and the burden of millions would be lifted. Return at minimum bankruptcy protection to PRIVATE STUDENT LOANS.
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Fmatosjr 11/09/2011 7:13:00 PM
I halfway agree with you WaxBrain. Yes. WE NEED TO BE THE CHANGE and get out there and do it. That is what OCCUPY is about. Federally funded student loans have repayment options and work things out with you and I agree that an outright forgiveness of student loans may be a bit much but Bankruptcy protections at minimum should be returned to PRIVATE STUDENT LOANS. Those are the loans killing everyone the most. They are like any other unsecured debt with no federal backing to them so returning bankruptcy protection to those types that were taken away from us by the republiCONS being bought out by Sallie Mae is the least that could be done. Not everyone needs to bankrupt. But if you really have to you should be able to. I don't get how a person can irresponsibly rack up 200k in credit card debt and file for bankruptcy and get a fresh start but a student going to school trying to better themselves and fell victim to this bad economy that the banks are responsible for along with a republican controlled house that let them do what they want can't be given that same consideration is just criminal.
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11/09/2011 6:17:00 PM
Everyone's always got the answer: It's always someone else's fault.
The more we hate and point fingers and whine.....the more shit stays the same.
God I'm tired of "Conservatives", "Liberals", "Hippies", the whole fucking thing......
Boring. We're fucking AMERICANS. Get yer heads out of yer asses and try, just fucking try to work together for a fucking change. At some point. Please. Try it.
Fucking cowards......
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Libertarian Grad 11/09/2011 6:13:00 PM
Which taxes (direct or indirect) are you referring to where you pay for other's loans? Please be specific instead of serenading us with an idealogoical rant.
Second, stop making stuff up. I have never complained about the price of tuition, in fact I'm just fine with it, since to me its a supply and demand issue, something you don't seem to believe in, that's rather odd for a self proclaimed "fiscal conservative". The reason prestigious schools like NYU, Columbia, Harvard, etc can charge such high tuition is because there are people willing to pay it. Every year, NYU gets far more applicants from students smart enough to be there then it can possibly fill, so of course they will charge as high as possible. In fact, I'd venture, one of these top flight schools can up tuition by another 10K next year, and they would still be filled to the brim with applications. There are plenty of cheap public colleges out there, state schools, community colleges, etc, its up to the individual whether he wants a Porsche or a Ford, one size doesn't fit all, different strokes for different folks, just don't complain when you make the wrong decision.
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RecentNYUalum 11/09/2011 5:34:00 PM
I would argue it is worth the cost. The notion that NYU is only the city is absurd. Don't get me wrong, the Greenwich Village location is a major selling point, but this would be an outstanding university if it were in the middle of nowhere. NYU departments that are the among best in the world include film, finance, math, economics, philosophy and french. The students are on the whole very bright and the professors are surprisingly acessible if you actually seek them out. Some of the dorms are fairly posh, and its very possible the students in them live better than the average Manhattan yuppie. Also, NYU has the only chic-fil-a in New York.
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Conservativegrad 11/09/2011 2:38:00 PM
No contradictions from me silly Lib. I graduated with NO debt. No loans. I am burdened by paying for YOUR loans through all of the various direct and indirect taxes that I am hit with. The funny thing is the government student loan program is a farce. It's a scam. And it preys upon those who want instant gratification. You get your loan, then you graduate and you pay triple your already inflated tuition. And if you happen to default, Lord help you. Because Uncle Sam will still get his. Because you don't apply for and get approved for these loans, the schools will continue to dish them out like snickers bars on Halloween. With no risk, no competition, guess what? Tuition goes through the roof. Years later you organize in tents, put on your Guy Fawkes mask and whine about the price of tuition. Thanks a lot.
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Libertarian Grad 11/09/2011 2:26:00 PM
Hey "conservative" grad, contracdict yourself much? You claim to be "burdened" by the decisions of goofy liberals, but its YOU had made the voluntary decison to go to college and take out loans for yourself. Ever hear of caveat emptor and self responsibility? Both concepts are hallmarks of fiscal conservatism. Blame yourself for any hardships you have, or you are just as liberal as the goofballs you complain about by passing the buck and whining.
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Conservativegrad 11/09/2011 2:19:00 PM
As long as our idiotic government guarantees student loans (loans which cannot be forgiven via bankruptcy - Uncle Sam the loan shark), there is no reason to not loan to all, tuition will continue to skyrocket, and I as a fiscal conservative will be burdened by all of the moronic decisions made by you goofy liberals. What amazes me is with an education from the almighty NYU, none of you can figure that out.
