These threats of race rioting are worrisome, in that they call for divisive revenge rather than fixing the problems in the system or bringing justice to the victims of this terrible crime -- yes, crime -- on the part of the NYPD. Regardless of how they were provoked, the police have a responsibility to serve and protect and by firing fifty shots into unarmed men (I'm saddened to read how many times the officers reloaded), they shirk that responsibility. Proper justice would be to bring each and every officer involved up on charges of 1st degree murder, and summarily dismiss their supervisors in their precinct. If such an event happens again, then the police commissioner should be held responsible

Posted by: Isaac at December 4, 2006 1:29 PM

White America is just as outraged by these shootings as everyone else is. Personally, I hope all five of the police officers involved are indicted on first degree murder charges. They're cancers. Mindless and destructive. Hang in there NYC... LA has your back.

Posted by: badpreppybad at December 4, 2006 2:47 PM

Additional violence is not the answer. Further killings of blacks will be justified as self-defense to revenge tactics. People should rally around getting these cops, and other like them, indicted. Also, HUGE lawsuits against the city must begin ... whether it is for murder, beatings, illegal stops and being harassed for simply walking/driving while black. Money talks and maybe if enough authentic lawsuits empty the city's coffers, maybe there'll be change. It's unfortunate to even consider the latter but we should cover all bases and hit the city where it hurts. The city doesn't care for blacks but it cares about its money. Sue.

Posted by: pendragon3 at December 4, 2006 2:49 PM

Yes, the "blue wall" must come down and the current law enforcement culture MUST be overhauled completely. They ought to be with us, not against us, and as long as they are against, it will never work. They have to be held just as accountable as anyone else for their actions, period. The police need to drop the chips on their shoulders already and stop regarding their charges as enemies and it needs to happen now.

Posted by: Ray at December 4, 2006 6:07 PM

i being a puertorican i agree wit the statements made by the blank panther leader as well as the Bloods statement..."50 shots-50 cops...kill the pigs who kill our kids"..its not just a black issue...its an all out issue considering skin color and minority groups in general eventhough the black community suffer intolerable circumstances...wats next, a innocent puertorican, dominican cuz to me their running out of excuses and blame towards the black race.

Posted by: ye' luciano at December 4, 2006 7:31 PM

The racial climate just seems to be getting worse and worse, especially since 911 and the intensification of what Foxnews calls "The Culture War". Innocent, unarmed black men are being gunned down in cold blood by police. Racial/religious profiling is openly advocated by politicians (such as Peter King) and mass media outlets. There is a new hostility toward Mexicans (and Latinos in general) from anti-immigration people. Just listen to Lou Dobbs on CNN. The NYC school system is more racially segregated now than at any time since the 1960's. Minorities in this country must be treated with respect. The sort of ignorance and fear displayed by these criminal cops has no place in this society anymore. Insecure bigots among us are going to have to adapt, whether they like it or not, because this country is changing.

Posted by: Uncle Sam at December 4, 2006 8:23 PM

Could the mulatto Columbian tyrant Hugo Chavez be behind this? The CIA should seriously consider this possibility.

Posted by: BewareofHugtler at December 4, 2006 8:39 PM

An open message to the subscribers to this message of hate:I think I speak for all my brothers in blue when I say "Bring it."

Posted by: LongArm at December 4, 2006 9:25 PM

Unemployed unmarried babymaker who hangs out at strip clubs? Maybe the cops did us all a favor.

Now the fiancee has a chance to raise her daughter as a strong woman. Getting a job, not a shakedown lawsuit, will help.

Posted by: PhillieDogg at December 4, 2006 10:51 PM

How many Police Officers die every year trying to serve and protect us from those same criminals that are protesting this tradgic incident.I am so tired of hearing Maliki Shabazz and others calling for an end to Black men killing black men.....How about having them stop Killing all together.

Posted by: Disgusting at December 4, 2006 11:48 PM

I believe that to fire fifty rounds each of the five policeman must have emptied his gun and never heard a shot fired back. That is panic

Posted by: Twenty Cents at December 5, 2006 5:48 AM

It is preposterous to shoot first and ask questions after. Too many black men are dying by the guns. Racism should be a thing of the past. However, let�s not fool ourselves, it is very much alive and is the cause of much atrocity in this 21st century.

Change is inevitable, we as a people must embrace change. The racist, be it black or white will consistently resist change therefore, the people must be educated along this line. As a people (multiracial) our only hope is togetherness, unity and peace. Let us not hate but embrace our differences and learn to respect these differences.

Posted by: Charles at December 5, 2006 8:43 AM

theses people can't get any dumber.....they kill their own people everyday.It doesn't make what happened right.so now they will riot and destroy their neighborhood.Get a job act like civilized humans and things will change..Geez i though the bloods went out with the 80's .how pathetic

Posted by: brad at December 5, 2006 11:56 AM

Wow, these comments read like they should belong to NY Post readers.

These men were ex-cons out at a strip club. They were, in fact, armed.

The 4th member of the party was armed with a firearm, which is why they now claim that there were only 3 men in the party.

The driver of the vehicle used his vehicle as a weapon, trying to harm the officer.

A mulitracial group of police officers shooting at a very real threat to their safety is so far from racist, it's saddening to hear members of the community call it as such. Based on the facts released, the anti-NYPD followers sound as illogical and pathetic as the cazy addict on the street talking about how THE MAN is holding him down.

While it may very well be true that some cops show race bias in certain policing situations, the elephant in the room is that street crimes are statistically dominated by economically-challenged, undereducated minorities. Both sides need to take a step back, go volunteer at a soup kitchen or a tutoring center, and let our judicial system do the judging.

Posted by: at December 5, 2006 12:25 PM

Like I always say, 'you are a product of the choices you make'...these guys decided to celebrate a bachelor party in some notorious shithole of a strip joint, rife with dope dealing and prostitution and a place that was actively being worked by an undercover team of cops. One thing leads to another we have what we have. If these cops did in fact panic and overreact and fire 50 rounds at unarmed, defenseless people because their nerves were so frayed from countless hours of living undercover then they were in the wrong line of work to begin with. I could care less what happens to them. But I also don't want to hear all the race baiters and opportunists elevate the dead and wounded to sainthood. You hang out in a place like that and sooner or later bad things will happen. The fact that they happened to them is their tough luck. It's just a another sad and sordid story about life in the big city.

Posted by: thegup55 at December 5, 2006 12:30 PM

i find it interesting that the only comments here that have a negative, insulting, and clearly ignorant tone are those expressing uninformed support for the police on this issue. (longarm, philliedog, brad, all obviously racists) why such a reactionary point of view from someone who feels this way? should you not be able to express your point of view (as many of the other people on this comment board have done) without threats or insults? it is so obvious that you question your own integrity to the point of abandoning reason and the ability to express yourselves intelligently. maybe you should think on that, and come back with something constructive. we do have the ability to change things, but only by abandoning our pretenses.

Posted by: kon at December 5, 2006 12:32 PM

White America agrees: Fifty shots are fifty shots too many. Anyone stating otherwise is just plain ignorant- there is no way to make an excuse for this, fifty bullets and now the media starts paying attention. Hey Media where have you been all along?

Posted by: at December 5, 2006 12:35 PM

We read and hear about white power and plack power. We see the "New Black Panther" crew raising hell..again. There is no white power and black power, it's time to be reallistic. It's us against them, we (America)are facing an enemy that doesn't care about white or black, they only want to se the destruction of the West. So, forget about who has who's back and start picking each other up from the front, because when it starts going, all we're going to have is our fellow Americans of all races and religions. And let us not forget that the person driving the car attempted to run over a police officer. If they are wrong then let the chips fall where they may.

Posted by: Mick at December 5, 2006 12:41 PM

I think the police panicked but enough with the garbage on here about applauding a call to murder police! What kind of losers are you? The Bloods and other gangs are murderous drug dealing scum and have lost any credibility they might have had.

Posted by: jake at December 5, 2006 2:47 PM

Lawsuits have never been a deterrent however, they are not meaningless. SOLUTION: Start incarcerating dirty police-officers who violate descent, law abiding citizens civil rights then treat them like civilians in prison and things will sure change.

Posted by: DL at December 5, 2006 3:42 PM

An idiot asked the following:

>>How many Police Officers die every year<<

The easy answer: Not enough.

Posted by: Captain Obvious at December 5, 2006 3:55 PM

Alot of thoughtless posts from overreactions. Wait for the case to pan out before making an uneducated comment. For the racists reading and posting on this site, most of the cops involved were minorities, so drop the race card!!! This is the problem today. Everyone bitches before they know the facts. Everyone wants cops to protect the public which is what they do day in and day out. The criminals involved all have prior arrests and were far from being good citizens. And for the threats from gang members... people siding with them are no better. This is why our kids can't go out to play anymore. Gang members are a disease. Weak individuals who need a group of other weak individuals to stand by them. Get them off of the street and behind bars where they belong and everyone will be happy.

Posted by: concerned at December 5, 2006 3:55 PM

Looks like this young man had ties to the bloods street gang. Not exactly model citzens! MTV and rap artists promote this type of gang lifestyle. Selling drugs and carrying guns are glorified. They are getting rich at the demise of thier own people. As are the community leaders who place emphasis on entitlement rather than education. Wake up black people.

Posted by: noblood at December 5, 2006 3:59 PM

I realize a "cooler heads must prevail" attitude is a difficult one in the face of such a heinous crime. But the fact that anyone would give even the smallest bit of credence to the murderous rantings of a group as repugnant as the Bloods is unsettling. That's like disagreeing with US foreign policy so you go ahead and support the Taliban.

There are a lot of factors at work here and people on both sides of the argument seem to feel more comfortable going to extremes rather than analyze unpleasant truths. Yes, it's easy to criticize the police as some fascist "blue wall" and say they need to really serve the people. These comments are worthless. I doubt there's a single person who, sitting at some internet cafe, wouldn't think to himself/herself: "Yeah, if I were a cop, I'd be the GOOD kind. I'd promote the community and never discriminate and be a positive force."

Naturally, none of those people will actually take on the incredible responsibility that is law enforcement. Any police office, especially those serving in high crime areas of major cities, put themselves at risk every day in order to maintain the law. And when they serve in such a high-risk, high-stress job, their mistakes and lapses of judgment can result in death.

However, having this type of understanding does NOT in any way mean that these officers (or any officers) should not be held accountable for their actions. When they choose to become police officers they must be held to a higher degree of responsibility than just about anyone else. We don't see this enough and thus, we get this kind of anger.

We need reform coupled with a higher degree of understanding from both sides. First of all, I think the police need to do a better job building alliances with local civic organizations in the communities. But moreover, we have to have a serious talk about WHY (not if) such vile racism is a problem in law enforcement. The answer is not that the majority of officers are white supremacists. It has to do with the realities, the misperceptions, and the attitudes toward low-income, high-crime areas. Honestly, it's counterproductive to have a discussion about racism in any capacity without talking about the socioeconomic factors that keep impoverished minorities from meeting their basic needs to moving up in society.

Posted by: Geoff at December 5, 2006 4:04 PM

I don�t see any need for them to fire 50 shots at anybody that isn�t armed with a machine gun. This was a combination of bad police work mixed in with a culture (New York City not African American) that does think very much of the police.

I think the police officers involved should be fired or maybe (depending on the outcome of the investigation) jailed.

However, the most disturbing thing about this is that a bunch of �Bloods� a group that has killed about as many black men as NYPD and LAPD combined actually has a voice in the community.

Maybe have the police move out and the bloods can police the area? Black leaders just don't exist anymore. MLK was pretty much it.

Posted by: NewYorkFools at December 5, 2006 4:25 PM

The actions taken by the police were reasonable considering the facts released at this time. Five shots or fifty shots make little difference in this case in that no bystanders were hit. The police hit their intended target, believing them to be armed (and using a vehicle as a weapon too). The demonstrators' reaction to this tragedy is either irrational or selfish and self-serving.

Posted by: Al Sands at December 5, 2006 4:35 PM

Al: You think that "the police were reasonable considerin the facts released at the time"?? Dude, I've been stopped for walking while black in my own neighborhood; a nice neighborhood. Thankfully, nothing serious has happened to me. And before you get into the socio-economic argument, I have a graduate degree and I don't speak using "ebonics" (that's usually when the police back-off; when they hear I have an education).

"Reasonable"??? Tell that to all the men of color that are stopped and harassed by cops - for no reason other than profiling. It's infuriating; being punished for being a good citizen (no, I don't have a record either).

But don't take my word for it. Check out the police blog below. The various discussions in the threads gives you an idea of what cops REALLY thing of the community they "serve" ... particularly blacks.

http://p066.ezboard.com/fnypdrant64609frm1

It speaks for itself. Europe, anyone?

Posted by: pendragon3 at December 5, 2006 5:28 PM

As a black woman I can understand the anger the hurt and the need to want to do something...but people this is not what we want to do. We want to protect our children make it a better day make it safer for them to walk down the street be proud of the color of their skin no fear no worries as it should be. However if we take it to the extent we are already heading we will surely be signing our children up in blood for more torment then they can handle. Lets think how is threatening the force that is already outnumbering not only blacks but anyone who stands in their way going to help at all. Now we look exactly like the "animals" you say they treat us like and just for the record the main officers there were minorities but yet we are attacking whites and naming white officials as our attackers. For so many years we've been attacking our own nd blaming the downfall of our culture on others enough is enough. I just feel for the young people up under your authority the ones you are teaching to hate the ones you call yourselves protecting. Can't you see what you are doing...you're giving them a reason to attack...giving our children a crutch to be a lazy I get tired of hearing my young black men who haven't even begun to live tell me that they don't have a chance because of the white man...this is 2006 you want a future then make one. I lived in the projects just about all my young life had so much thrown at me and my own black men abuse me but not once did I give up not on life not on me and especially not on you. Through my hard work and determination I made a better way for me and my family never have I blamed anyone for my trials and tribulations. Yes it is a bit harder because of who you are but why should that stop you. So why is it now we are so ready to give up our righteous fight we can protest and protect without making ourselves look like menacing predators who just hate because they can. Lets find a better way please I know we can do it we are smart enough to do so. What happen to wanting to end gang violence now we are promoting it and using it for our cause so it's okay are you serious? My heart hurts and I'm tired of having to think of a reason to defend my brothers and sisters...in case you haven't noticed (and this goes to every race) we are all brothers and sisters stemming from the same father no matter how much you hate me because my skin is darker than yours or (to my fellow african american sister) how much you say I think I'm better than you I am still your sister we bleed the same color red and when we die all become ash. Yes I totally agree they went way too far and no police officer should ever reload especially when there is no one firing back...the bottom line is they were wrong but how are we any better than them. Why does it take another senseless death for people to want to stand up this should be about right and wrong not white and black let get it together people. They were totally out of order and yes we can speak out but to react in such a way is not going to do anything but disgrace us further and cause even more reason for us to fear what lies ahead. THINK ABOUT IT

Posted by: Keturah Bryant at December 5, 2006 5:45 PM

I just needed to add this to the post I already sent I wanted to comment on a post about Sean Bell see a lot of people are passing judgement on a person only betrayed through the eyes of the media. A person commented saying "he seemed to have some kind of connection to the bloods not exactly model citizens". Yes I agree but what does that have to do with this young man dying for some he said bull. There are a lot of comments on here that are just outrageous makes me sick to my stomach the majority of you posting on here are no better than the police who do take their authority way too out of hand or the scum gangbangers that we seem to be teaming up with. I can't say all of them are bad and to think this young man was wrong for having made a few friends maybe in that affiliation does not incriminate him if that's the case I guess I'm next now aren't I. For the record I work with an organization trying to end gang violence trying to encourage youth to drop their flags so now I'm affiliated I guess they'll come for me next. See how stupid that sounds people people think before you post stop just reacting out of anger lets find a solution.

Posted by: Keturah Bryant at December 5, 2006 5:57 PM

though i admit, it does seem very strange that the best we can come up with to protest such a shocking (to me ) and violent act, is more violence, the fact is what happened is wrong and scary. it is scary that police can do what ever they want to do. i am a black woman who has been harrassed by the police several times. i am petite and non-life threatening. absolute YUCK!!!!
about the bloods...someone sharply pointed out they have killed more black men than police ever have..... ha ha....good point! black unity is like that relative you only see at funerals. and its always the ones fainting in the aisle that get the most attention. forget bloods. what do the normal people think? what do the real people wanna do or think they can do?

Posted by: manhattan at December 5, 2006 8:10 PM

Most these posts have been reactionary and counter-productive (with the exception being Keturah Bryant and Geoff). The thread has become a blame game without any true suggestions for real change. A disgusting event just happened and instead of coming up with ways to prevent this from happening again people are either denying this tragedy or calling for more blood. Violence only begets more violence.
A young man was murdered and two are injured. How on earth are we not coming together to help each other as a result of this? You can call me a hippie or an idealist but this is ridiculous. We should address the true problem. Poverty creates violence. Reduce poverty then you reduce violence. We shouldn't be complementing cops who didn't identify themselves and properly assess a consequently deadly situation. However, we also shouldn't be promoting the thought of more violence and vigilante justice. Warring words will only stir up more hostilities between the cops and the impoverished communities. So please, let's try to bridge the divide instead of increasing it.

Posted by: Fred at December 5, 2006 8:33 PM

And to weak individuals like "Captain Obvious". When your Mom/dad/brother/sister/son or daughter get shot b/c of people like you, you will be the first one calling the police. Then complaining that they are not doing enough to keep the streets safe. You are a sheep in a herd of other weak sheep and without police or military you would crumble if you ever had to stand up for yourself.

Posted by: concerned at December 5, 2006 9:00 PM

I hope they continue to kill everyone of the pieces of s*it from NYC. If a black panther or blood has a problem with a cop, we will have no problem killing them too. You will not win this battle. We will always have more people for the police then against the police. So shut up, go back to your life of crime and wait to be locked up or killed by one of us or one of your own!

Posted by: Jim the cop from NYC at December 5, 2006 9:51 PM

My god, what are we thinking? You were not in the mind of the cop, nor in the mind of those kids that were shot and killed. Let the investigation run its course and accept the findings when they are released. To use this as an excuse to fan the flames of race hatred is ludicrous. I work in a prison environment and see racist people of all colors from all walks of life and all types of religious dogma. This will not "go away" it needs to be addressed. What I find hypocritical is the fact that the "New Black Panther Party" acts identical to the "New Klu Klux Klan" just without the white sheets. A racist is what a racist does.

Posted by: Bystander at December 5, 2006 9:53 PM

For many years now, I have urged that progressives launch a campaign to disarm cops. I cannot recall a single instance in which cops using guns has solved anything. There are other industrialized countries where the police only carry guns for special circumstances. Of course along with disarming cops, we must also have ironclad restrictive gun laws. The people who claim the 2nd Amendment permits people to carry guns are flat out wrong. READ THE AMENDMENT!!
I am aware I am advocating an extreme position, but the relentless violence visited upon young black men (and others as well) by cops must stop. Taking such an extreme position is the way to begin making progress in countering the extreme situation we now find ourselves in.

Posted by: Steve Siegelbaum at December 5, 2006 11:06 PM

in response to all of this I posted a song,
you can listen to it at http://myspace.com/nopolicestategirl
it's the same story different year.

Posted by: no police state girl at December 5, 2006 11:58 PM

If some destabilized our security infrastructure, such as what happened in Bagdad, how long do you think it would take before 50-100 bodies started showing up dead everyday with "sectarian violence" breaking out in all 5 boroughs?

Posted by: Grant at December 6, 2006 4:45 AM

What a bunch of hot air are the NBPs - what fools: in 2005, there were 540 murders in NYC - how many were young black men killed by young black men? And do the New Black Panthers speak up for those guys or their familes? of course not - and then - as the ultimate inslt, they bring in the so-called Bloods, who, along with the so-called Crips have more black blood on their hands than the KKK and the cops combined over the last 100 years! And some jerks here applaud these losers - these drug dealing thugs who destroy communities, who set the stereotypes that allow cops to blast with impunity while middle America approves because those killed may be innocent, but is anyone really innocent? Please. To those who advocate killing cops, I ask one question: who wins in a state of anarchy? The minority community or the white community?

Posted by: Jeffrey at December 6, 2006 7:36 AM

go fuck yourselves!!!!!!

Posted by: at December 6, 2006 8:59 AM

the police serve us. they protect us. the police farked up. there is no menace on the part of the police. just idiocy. some of you don't know the difference between evil and stupid. because some of you reply to police stupidity with evil on your mind: you want to start a war, you want to kill police on purpose. do you know what the word "intent" means? a guy falls asleep at the wheel of a truck, and plows into a school bus, killing 10 kids. he feels awful about it: he didn't do it on purpose. another guy carefully plots and watches a school bus route for weeks, planning and plotting to ram the school bus on purpose. he does so, killing 2 kids. he killed 5 times less kids, but he is way more evil than the guy who killed the 10 kids. why? it's INTENT: what do you INTEND to do? what is in your heart? stupidity? or evil? that is why our justice system has manslaughter versus murder: one is cruel and evil on purpose: murder, one is by mistake by stupid drunks/ etc. now you want to respond to police stupidity with evil in your heart? REALLY?! what the fark is wrong with you? now you go up and you ask any one of these cops, right now, if they wanted to actually kill unarmed defenseless men that day. do you REALLY believe they wanted to do that? how many stupid b-grade hollywood movies have you been watching? how paranoid schizophrenic are you? they are just cops, not demons. seriously! wake up! they had no INTENT to do wrong. they DID do wrong: they farked up. that makes them STUPID, not EVIL. and how do some of you respond? you want to purposefully kill a cop. what is that? that's EVIL. evil is not a valid reaction to stupidity. because your INTENT is to kill. some of you have a real problem with cops. ok, fine. but what the heck is a cop? a cop serves YOU. a cop is out there to protect YOU. a cop is a tool. YOUR tool. so go and fix your tool: get the police to stop doing stupid things. because cops don't actually have the intent of killing innocent people. REALLY. they are just STUPID. no joking. figure it out yourself, and wake the fark up some of you.

Posted by: circletimessquare at December 6, 2006 11:53 AM

"Kill the Cops who Kill Our Kids" That is the most ignorant thing I ever heard. "50 shots, 50 cops" How about the members of the Bloods gang who kill with their drugs and violence? Should it then be 50 shots, 50 gangbangers? Ridiculous. Only light cancels darkness and water puts out fire. What happened was tragic, 50 shots is excessive and outrageous, and the officers have a lot to answer for. But advocating the killing 50 cops does not bring Sean Bell back.

Posted by: matthew at December 6, 2006 11:59 AM

Just imagine if the late Mr. Bell drove off uneventfully without trying to run down a man who turns out to be an undercover cop(whether he showed his badge or not)and then ramming the police van TWICE to start the tragic events to follow. What would have happened?

Just imagine if the late Mr. Diallo put both his hand up instead of puting them in his pockets when four men (who turn out to be undercover cops or even if they were robbers for that matter) pointed their guns at him calling him to freeze. What would have happened?

Just imagine if the late Mr. Dorismand not struggled with the cop and his gun but proceeded with him to the station to answer what questions the latter may have. What would have happened?

Probably nothing, no political, racial or other agendas would have followed. No, not even a trials or lawsuits against the city(or the taxpayers who have to pay eventually).

Sometimes 'doing nothing' may be just the right thing to do.

Posted by: Justine at December 6, 2006 12:00 PM

I am tired of my community rallying about white people killing us, but it seems as though it is okay to kill each other. I am tired of hearing about gang violence in New York, in Philly, and near the area where I live, Trenton. Brown people shooting other brown people......is that okay? We stand by and let it occur? We are killing each other with no problem every damn day and yet gang members have the NERVE to come out against the NYPD. At the rate we are going, the NYPD can just let us kill each other, because we are already doing one hell of a job.

If you want to be respected, you have to learn to respect yourself..... and it most certainly does not look like we respect ourselves in our community at all.

Posted by: evie at December 6, 2006 1:43 PM

The black community needs leadership worse than any other nationality in history. Dr. King was inspirational and his message was unfortunately cut short. Why do the 'powerful' community leaders only show up for a funeral of a young man who was reportedly criminal and had gang affiliation. This obviously appears to be an unfortunate event however, in my mind it weakens the power base of the black leadership. There has to be someone out there that can speak honestly about the positive contributions and headway that the African American communities are making. The leadership message needs to change from 'we will sue you and rally if you don't....' to 'if you are ambitious, we will help you get an education - employment - self-esteem - and a true voice in our community'. My concern continues to be about the leadership messages.

Posted by: C. W. at December 6, 2006 2:06 PM

Ms. Justine I totally agree sometimes nothing is the right thing to do...but let me ask you this...hypothetically of course you have an argument with a young lady and she threatens to get at you...then minutes later you see me whom you do not know pointing a gun at you...honey if you can honestly say you would do nothing...you wouldn't try to run you wouldn't think of your beautiful children and want to get away...knowing the kind of neighborhood you are in the kind of thing that happens all too often in the "streets"...HONEY if you can say to me right at this moment you would do nothing then you are either one of the most mature people who is ready to go or the dumbest person I have ever heard of. Though I don't know these young men I do know if I was in their shoes I want out as quick as possible. That is just your survival instinct so though I'm not taking sides I can understand why'd they want to get away not knowing who or why someone was pointing a gun at them. Again I'm not taking sides just speaking realistically

All I want is for people to think before they post so much is said just out of plain ignorance we're all jumping to conclusions you have got to be kidding me would this even be a topic if these men weren't police?

Posted by: Keturah Bryant at December 6, 2006 2:12 PM

It was an unfortunate event brought about by the panic, fear, and confusion of both parties involved (the cops & the party guys). We all know the scene outside a bar after closing is loud, rowdy, and crowded so its no surprise that something like this could happen.Maybe the cops did identify themselves but the young men didn't hear them.Maybe they hit the cop by mistake trying to get away bcauz of illegal items that may have been in the car.
Check this scenrio: If a fourth man did have a gun that night and actually fired upon another bar patron killing him....would that victim's family have protested police standing by doing nothing(had they not acted).
The police have seconds to make a decision that can cost them their lives. Its unfair to call it racism or brutality when most people are sitting by doing nothing as our society/humanity is going downhill & fast. These cops are trying to clean up the streets & still make it home to their families. The BIBLE SAYs: Show me who u walk with and I'll show u who u are.
WALK WITH THE WRONG CROWD IN THE WRONG PLACE AND U WILL FIND WRONGFULL SITUATIONS & ACTIONS ALL AROUND U>

Posted by: GABE at December 6, 2006 2:22 PM

Will America EVER, EVER, EVER give the black man the benefit of the doubt? If these had been 3 white men outside a strip club, the outcome would have been totally different. Just like you see cops constantly beating up people of color, when was the last time you saw a video where young, white men were beaten to a pulp by cops? Case in point: Hinckley, who shot the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, President Ronald Reagan, at point blank range, was tackled to the ground and he is indeed alive today to tell his story, some 20 years later. Hmmph, it he'd been a black man, he would be a dead black man. Peace.

Posted by: Pamela A. Hairston at December 6, 2006 4:09 PM

My son is a smart, articulate young scholar who's a sophomore at Stanford University. He also is black. Everyday I pray that God protects him from trigger happy police officers who feel that most young, black men are thugs and gangsters. To me, thugs and gangsters are the pedophiles that pray on innocent children; to me, thugs and gangsters are corrupt politicians who lie to us everyday; to me, thugs and gangsters are the founding fathers of this great nation who viewed black people as "beast of the field" but somehow, always found a place for the beast in their beds. Oh but in the end, when all is said and done, God will be the judge and jury. Hell, I got issues with both black and white America: we all need to get our s*** together before one of the many countries that hate us blows us to Kingdom Come. I sound crazy? Yeah, because I make sense. Thanks for listening and may God bless and protect our children and soldiers everywhere!

Posted by: GingerGGG at December 6, 2006 4:20 PM

I sense riots coming and I dont think they will be happening in the ghetto neighborhoods. Time to bring the violence to the cop neighborhoods (cop land). Show 'em what it's like to live in fear.

Posted by: Beat Rag at December 6, 2006 4:50 PM

those who will, consider for a moment the fourteen year old girl that our "OWN" precious (just because they are on our side) troops brutally gang raped infront of all her family before killing them? AMERICAN MEN in POWER. what SYSTEM is in place that so easily allows the mindset that one can get away with murder? perhaps a system that allows its people to get away with murder. one that allows cops 48 hours to come up with something as pathetic as a forth armed member of that party. this issue from which sean's media frenzy was birthed, is not isolated to the police, or to race, and our mentality spreads beyond the borders of our own country, and of-course beyond our own generation.
my sister was a flight attendant for charter that sometimes flies troops overseas and back for our country. while trying to remain respectful as well as dodging their pinching fingers aimed for her butt, she overheard one describing the murder of an enemy, then crawling back, digging through the dead man's bag, and grabbing this special kind of dvd which offered the at the time unreleased "Soul Plane" starring snoop dog, some romantic comedies, and a video game all in one. which they watched on the flight back to the U.S. My siter even watched some of it, only stopping because it was so bad.
i also happen to know that one of the distractions that we call the "bloods" told a white female cop to suck his d*ck.
i do consider these crimes to be very much along the same line, in that people in power are seemingly ENCOURAGED to flex as opposed to being taught what power is, and the right way to use it. douse the recently de-virginized girl's family with kerosene. reload your guns. sodomize the haitian. a little enemy blood wouldn't put you off of meg ryan's latest flop, would it?
while i think that jim the cop is physco wierd, it is informative to experience his "us against them" mentality. it must be confusing. did he start out this way (please God no) or is this the jaded version of the man who started out on his noble path of protector. i am sure that it is mirrored by most cops, along with the rest of us here in this country to some extent.
oh jim the cop, can i ask you a qestion that i already know the answer to? who is mine? would you protect me from one of my "own"? how would you handle a father who decided to molest one of his "own"? If you are lucky enough to have an "own" wife, and said "own" wife put arsenic in your stew, would it be acceptable for a black attorney sweep that case under the rug?

we live in a society of fear. fear separtates us from eachother, and breeds weak minded chumps.

Posted by: manhattan at December 6, 2006 5:19 PM

Well Beat Rag you're already displaying how to live in ignorance. Do you ever stop to think maybe the reason the police profile young black men is because of those very gangs that deal, steal and murder without a moments hesitation? I am no fan of police, but I can understand the "siege mentality" they have...its the same oe US soldiers have in Iraq. Its a job where you can be gunned down at any time by lowlifes who prey on society. Right now is the time to cool down the rhetoric and wait until evidence of what actually went down is discovered.

Posted by: jake at December 6, 2006 5:54 PM

When blacks kill blacks you better believe when caught that black man will be trialed and justice will be served. I've noticed in my forty years on this earth when a cop kills an unarmed black man or hispanic he gets off. they are the only group of people that can get away with murder and still walk the streets. To mattew just imagine if people would raise they young children to respect other cultures just maybe we won't have racist cops killing our children our brothers and sisters. Some of our people do get falsely arrested and get trump up charges so that its is difficult for some of us to get a descent job.This is for the uncivilized cops that goes around and kill our poeple and use every excuse under the sun to justify on doing so, stop killin our people for racism is what is destroying this great country. Isn't that right charlse? My prays goes out to sean bell's family and his friends and his would be wife. god bless.

Posted by: patrick at December 6, 2006 6:54 PM

These guys are idiots! Where are the rallies when young black men are killing each other?! How about the bloods and crips?! They are a nationwide gang that is killing each other! C'mon, nigga please!!!!!!

Posted by: Kid Funkadelic at December 6, 2006 9:10 PM

Fact: Police officers CHOOSE their professions, so they have an idea of what the job entails. Stop it with the BS excuses.
Fact: Sean Bell was MURDERED and he was unarmed.
Fact:The Sean bell murder has NOTHING TO DO WITH BLACK ON BLACK CRIME,GANG MEMBERS,(because people of all walks of life have criminal affiliations including politicians)or volunteering at soup kitchens(Posted by: at December 5, 2006 12:25 PM), stick to the issue or you diminsh the severity.
Just a thought for all of u who have commented- Imagine Sean Bell is your son,brother,cousin,uncle,nephew, boyfriend,husband,FATHER -so now how do you feel about what happened? Officers are hired to enforce the law, this does not mean that they are above the law. These officers killed/wounded 3 UNARMED men, they SHOULD be held accountable for their actions.
If we lived in an idealistic society where things were fair and justice prevailed for all,then depictions of valiant police officers protecting the public regardless of color or socioeconomic status would be believable. However, the reality is that racism, prejudice and profiling are normal practices of the NYC police department and are reeking havoc. YOU KNOW WHAT, AT SOME POINT SOMEONE SWINGS BACK AT THE BULLY ON THE PLAYGROUND.

Posted by: Natalie at December 7, 2006 1:07 AM

I am like everyone else; upset about the shooting, but getting revenge on the NYPD is not going to help the situation. It's only saying to them; go ahead continue to put us in the category of violent, riotous, etc. This in turn causes them to profile and target us.

To want justice is a different story and retaliation is not that. I agree the cops were extreme and way out of line. The NYPD is wrong for allowing their undercover officers to drink while on the job, I know people who go to clubs and don’t drink, it’s not necessary. My questions are:

1. Who is driving them home, or back to the “office" when they leave the setting?
2. Who is at the club monitoring the officers’ toast?
3. Who is giving them a breathalyzer at the end of the night to make sure their judgment isn’t impaired?

With that said, yes inquiring about these “within job description” tolerances are the way to go, but shooting back at innocent cops who may or may not have the same mentalities is exactly what the 5 officers did when they heard about a gun and witnessed more than one individual walking out to their vehicle to go home.

My thing is you heard about a gun, okay fine, but as plain clothed officers why would you jeopardize your status and go after “suspects”. What happened to calling the real police (uniformed cops) for back-up, and letting them handle their jobs. That’s why you were out of uniform in the first place, so no one could tell you were cops. DUH!

In conclusion if the young men were wrong that would not matter because the undercover officers blew it by not doing their jobs and overstepping their boundaries. Lets say Bell and his friends were the right suspects and did have a gun. Why wouldn’t they shoot back? They are thugs and ruffians, that don’t respect authority. Wouldn’t there be bullet casings or shells from the gun they were supposedly carrying. Also why and how would only one of them get away while the other three got stuck in the car? With the may lay of bullets flying in the air, lets just use common sense. Why save one life for a gun if everyone was going to get shot at, we all are going to run.

No matter what justice will be served.

“In the End the True One Always Wins”

Posted by: Kimberly at December 7, 2006 1:26 AM

Anyone who has ANY knowledge of a situation such as this knows that it takes only a second for multiple shooters of semi-auotmatic weapons to fire fifty rounds. Anyone envisioning a calculated prolonged shooting incident is mistaken. If nothing else, this will be revealed early on in the investigation.
That one officer had the time and oppportunity to reload may very well indicate that after firing his initial load he had time to evaluate, and still percieved a threat!

How quickly so many of you choose to conclude that there was no threat to the officers, and jump to a 'biased incident' conclusion without knowing any of the facts. Was there a threat? A full and thourough investigation may very well reveal that there was a forth occupant who was armed, and/or the operator of the vehicle was attepting to use his vehicle as a deadly weapon...And maybe not, but if it does, what will you do then? Will you be relieved that your officers acted as justly as any human beings in real, or percieved peril can be expected to, or will you burn your neighborhood to the ground, and become part of history's illustration of how ridiculous and animalistic your kind (militant anti-establishment types)can be. Thankfully, since you so enthusiastically air out your opinions in a public fashion, you will NEVER sit on a jury.

It seems that some of those people doing the chanting on the street are looking for a war. Try taking up arms one against the knuckleheads who attacked YOUR city, and our country. The ones who would lop off your head for being from the U.S...For dressing like you do, or speaking your voice.

If some out there truly believe that you are at war with the police, and believe that "fifty cops for fifty bullets" nonsense, then fine..I'll stand by "Longarm" and say BRING IT!!!
If you are that irrational, and sociopathic then I, or my kind will gladly do society a favor by riding the world of your existence.
--Team Before Self

Posted by: Buzz137 at December 7, 2006 2:18 AM

THE FIFTY BULLETS FIRED ON SEAN BELL REVEAL A TOTAL MISPERCEPTION OF A POLICE OFFICER!

Indeed, I feel sorry for Sean Bell?s life that ended in a mysterious tragedy. Therefore, I would like to present my sincere sympathy and condolences to his family and friends.

Fundamentally, I consider the disaster that took place on November 24, 2006 under a doubtable practice, murder, and pure human destruction.

In conclusion, I am relieved that the murder of Sean Bell has demonstrated further Police excessive brutality, rough treatment and a lack of perception.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THIS IS THE TIME WHERE THINGS, TRUTHS, AND VALUES ARE GIVEN TO US.

Therefore, the above sensible statement is submitted deliberately by a wise Algerian immigrant in New York, victim of excessive police abuse.

respectfully yours,
The Love itself@aol.com

I am a free existent being and responsible
of my manner of being

Posted by: The Love itself at December 7, 2006 3:28 AM

All i see when I see the Bloods rallying is a bunch of thugs who deserve a good beat down. Screw all of you who call the police killers, Nazis ect. If you dont commit a crime or act aggressive towards the police,IE hitting one with a car, you should have no problem. Wake up.

Posted by: Bilbo at December 7, 2006 5:05 AM

Patricks post above is a prime example of the hysterical rhetoric going too far. There arent scores of "racist cops" killing "your children, brothers and sisters"...this is just furthering some lie that cops will let white men get away with crimes so they can focus on harrassing innocent minorities. You are surprised cops stick up for each other? Let me tell you, if you were part of the force you would do the same. Cops quickly realize all they have is each other to rely on...and that there are a lot of people who will kill them and others. And do you also know that according to statistics, white men killing black men is very rare! The VAST majority of murders of black men is committed by other black men. People like you who love to sew the seeds of racial unrest are just as bad as our President.

Posted by: jake at December 7, 2006 7:51 AM

DO YOU REALLY WANT PEACE? THEN STOP YOUR BROTHERS WHO DEAL DRUGS, STOP HUSTLING, STOP ROBBING, STOP KILLINGS, STOP TEACHING RACISM AGAINST WHITE PEOPLE, STOP DISEDUCATING YOUR CHILDREN. START TEACHING MORAL VALUES, INTEGRITY, RESPECT FOR YOUR NEIGHBOR, AND THERE WILL BE NO MORE RACISM AGAINST BLACK PEOPLE. JUST DO THE RIGHT THING!!!!!!!

Posted by: Mario at December 7, 2006 10:36 AM

THE RIGHT THING? Ain't that a crock of shit? White Americans--stop being deliberately dismissive when it comes to race and race relations in America. Don't bury your head in the sand, like your forefathers and ancestors. Let's put race right up there with terrorism! Let's face it, race is a major problem in America, always has been and God only knows if it will ever change. Change takes centuries to accomplish-- look how long after slavery ended it took Congress to make us first class citizens--100 years. Speaking of Congress, why has there never been a standing race relations committee in Congress? DELIBERATELY DISMISSIVE! You speak of terrorism--ain't the Klan the oldest terrorist group in the country and yet they still exist! Such double standards, how I deplore double standards. Sure, I have issues with my people, they need to get their shit today but so does white America. As always, I leave in peace. PS As far as drugs are concerned, hell, if blacks or whites ain't got the sense enough to stop doing drugs, what can I say. And if liquor and cigarettes are legal, so should many illegal drugs be legalized. Makes sense to me. One more thing--give me my reparations and you can call me nigger, nigger, nigger 'til the cows come home to roost.

Posted by: PA Hairston at December 7, 2006 2:39 PM

"Long Arm" will get the first bullet to the head!

Posted by: Beat Rag at December 7, 2006 2:46 PM

A quick message to Black people reading the above comments of "progressives?" White people, cops and others. When there was very little Black on Black violence (until the late 1950s), when there was no Black on White violence, when Black people didn't feel safe even looking White people in the eye, or standing on the same sidewalk as them, when Black people were completely docile, terrorized into submission, afraid every minute, THERE WERE STILL POLICE OFFICERS AND ORDINARY WHITE CITIZENS KILLING US. For sure, we have changed. We ARE more violent with each other. But don't confuse these issues. After 300 years of brutality and murder, we can't possible be surprised, or wonder why. Ask the South Africans who are going through their self-hatred phase about this dynamic. But what HASN'T changed in centuries is the propensity of White people to be supportive of violence against us and to justify this violence and brutality with any evolving excuse. Now, its crime. They'll be another excuse if Black crime disappears. The real question is what can change the very souls of White people? Not God. That's been tried. No luck. Not complete submission and obedience. We did that. And we were good at it. The only thing Blacks haven't tried is fighting directly back. When I read many of the comments above, many containing lies about the man killed, when I think of the history of those comments, I don't see many other options.

Posted by: mk at December 7, 2006 2:59 PM

Just because these men were far from ideal citizens does not mean they deserve 50 gunshots. Just because they may have run into something with their vehicle does not mean they deserve 50 gunshots. Just because we in America refuse to admit that there is long history of racism that continues today and is ingrained in our consciousness, ingrained in our incarceration system, and exascerbated by images of the dangerous black man, presumed to be Sean Bell, does not mean he deserved 50 gunshots.

The fault is less that of the police officers than that of the manner of thinking, the racial climate, and the cultural expectations of America.

Posted by: at December 7, 2006 3:33 PM

RESPONSE TO COMMENTS POSTED BY BILBO AND MARIO at December 7, 2006

It seems that Bilbo and Mario have specifically come out onto this site all setup to make ambiguous pretexts. They posted comments to insult and intimidate all the fair people on this site, the people who are aspiring to disclose sensible comments about the inexplicable murder of Sean Bell. Most comments on this site about Sean Bells murder are fortunately filled with the truth itself, except the ones posted by Bilbo, Mario and so on... In other words, Bilbo and Mario are phony, and in a French poetry I would somewhat say that Bilbo and Mario are similar to a bizarre breeze.

Bilbo, you should understand by now that the sensible comments on this site are claiming fairness, justice, equality, and fraternity which represent essence of liberty and liberty itself, which liberty you should claim for yourself as well. You got it!

Mario posted comment involving prostitutes, drug traffickers, rubbery and so on.

Mario, all of the above you displayed is not the issue of Sean Bell?s inexplicable murder case we are raising today. In other words, your statement should not play a role of a principal tool in association with a care less of Sean Bell?s inexplicable murder case. Under its plain nature, what you put on show in your comment describes criminals, therefore criminals in our society should be put behind bars and implicate justice in their case. That?s why France invented the Statute of Liberty. You got it Mario!

Posted by: The Truth Itself at December 7, 2006 3:54 PM

To those of you who dislike the police; I have a suggestion. I would venture to say that every police department in the nation is looking for qualified applicants. Mainly because of the hatred you all so freely show, why would an intelligent person, who wants to enjoy life as much as you do, take a job where you are not appreciated, threatened and possibly called on to make the ultimate sacrifice for people you don't know. Anyway, as you believe that you know how the job should be done, why not drop by and put in your application? Then in about 6 months to a year, you could be on the streets doing police work the right way. Before you apply, make sure you are mentally strong enough to pass the rigorous psychological tests. And hopefully, you're in good physical shape to be able to survive the running, jumping and fighting you'll do. Oh, and you can't have used any illegal drugs, drink excessively, have a gambling problem or be in significant financial debt. Moral fiber is important as you will be constantly faced with temptations to abuse your "power". Let's see, you need at the minimum, a HS diploma, but a Bachelor's degree is the norm. Now that you qualify to put in the application, you just have to pass the written test, oral board, physical agility test, background investigation, polygraph test, psychological tests and medical exam. Once your department says they want to give you their badge, then just pass the 4 - 6 month, high stress academy. You're not on your own yet though. Now a fellow officer will need to train you and watch your performance. If he/she feels you won't get hurt, killed, prosecuted or cause the city to be sued, you'll pass the 6 month program. But now you are just a probationary employee and you can be fired without cause until you've worn the badge for a year. Now that you're a "real" cop, put yourself in the situation of these 5 "brothers" of yours. After seeing countless videos in the academy of police officers being killed in every way imaginable, have a car, occupied by four men, one of which you know has a gun, try to run you/and your buddy over. Since these officers did the wrong thing, now you can just easily step out of the way and let them drive away. Better yet, when they walk away from you, just let them go. I wish you luck, you'll need it.

Posted by: another badge at December 7, 2006 4:32 PM

I <3 cops. You will too, when you call them to save your sorry asses from a bad situation that you probably brought upon yourself. Now get in the kitchen and make me a sandwich.

Posted by: ed at December 7, 2006 5:19 PM

I have much respect for civil servants: cops, nurses, teachers, firefighters, social workers, etc but I also have a 19 year old black son that I love and respect more than life itself. I hope some trigger happy cop gives him the benefit of the doubt if he's ever in a similiar situation, God forbid.

Police officers should always be in uniform. That way, the is no mistaking their identity. I'll say it once again, let me shout it from the mountaintops: If they had been 3 or 4 young, white men leaving a strip club, and believe you me, young, white men love seeing pussy on parade probably more than they admit it, these cops would have given them the benefit of doubt. I'd bet a month's salary on it. ($4000)

Posted by: GingerGGG at December 7, 2006 5:22 PM

Police should just selectively strike. Don't patrol shitty neighborhoods. You've been threatened; your lives are in danger. Let them riot, burn down their hoods, and kill each other.

Posted by: TheMan at December 7, 2006 5:45 PM

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, THIS IS THE TIME WHERE THINGS, TRUTHS, AND VALUES ARE GIVEN TO US.

THEREFORE, I REJECT WITHOUT DOUBT THE IDEA OF SEAN BELL RALLY: KILL THE COPS WHO KILLED OUR KIDS

As a self-instructed forthcoming summit philosopher, I definitely reject the Idea of Sean Bell rally: Kill the Cops Who Killed Our Kids, just like I reject the Sense Data, since the sense data does not dig out the deep knowledge of the nature of the object itself.

As a self-instructed forthcoming summit philosopher, I stand against violence, divisive revenge, and riots. Exactly the same method I stand anti terrorism, war, and especially war against Iraq. Because divisive revenge in the case of Sean Bell signifies violence itself. In other words, the inexplicable murder of Sean Bell should not amount to a point of violence. Since violence, terrorism and war themselves unite purely with the harm and destruction of our universe. In conclusion, the fundamental answer in Sean Bell inexplicable murder is silence, where silence represents justice in this case. Justice for the lack of good perception of a Police Officer, who brutally murdered an existent being by firing 50 bullets with no mercy and understanding.

PS: I deeply value the wise comment posted by Isaac, at December 4, 2006 1:29 PM

Posted by: The Love itself at December 7, 2006 6:25 PM

I'm not from New York. In fact I live in Las Vegas. I read New York papers and magazines because of the hard hitting jounalism and cultural association with New York as an American city. As a black American who grew up in the 60's and have never needed the ethnic validity nor racial legitimacy of being African American, this case is a sad example of how social, family, and gender issues of the masses as black male is rooted in social illegitimacy 40 years after the Civil Rights Movement for racial intergration. Society, as The Ruling Class determines the term, has made ammendents for tolerance and inclusion, and gone back to prior held prejudices because black male in large number have not changed to accept standards of social,family, and gender illegitimacy. We pride ourselves on our identity as the 'ultimate others' as American male. Obviously many of the New Yorkers who have contributed to this post do not read your own New York papers and magazines with a mind to find the truth. This is a black story more so than a black-and-white story. I'm sure this truth is much to the chagrin of black bigots, and opportunist who lurk in the background of social scenarios looking for their cue to provoke rage as racial reaction even when the crime, indignity, immorality, or impetus for scrutiny is black-on-black.

These are some obviously little known realities about this tragedy:

There was another group of Black male involved in scenario that took place in the club around which all this drama evolves. There is also a woman involved. The woman whose presence and modus operandi as class and caste is one of the major reasons why the sting operation of NYPD was afoot. The group that included Sean Bell's friends were in confrontation with the aforementioned 'other group' of Black male. The issue was, the prositute who was being defended by that other group of Black male, said she would only 'do' 2 of the men in the group of '3'. When beef between the two factions of Black male got heated, one of the members in one of the groups said he was going to the car to get his gun. The undercover narc--who was Black--hate to disappoint you bigots and radicals, radioed to the cops outside that the Black males on their way out of the club to get in the car had a gun.

Also, 2 of the cops responsible for the 50-round dumps were Black and another one Latino. Moral of the story: It's easy for Black haters to make white authority the cause and affect for the social illegitimacy of life they inherited. After all, how many of those among us as Black male dare to be honest enought to blame our circumtance--if blame is in deed warranted, on the male and female responsible for our existence. In the world of male predators, the strong survive--there is no government sanctioned program for survival. Unless you can stay alive and free you cannot provide for yourself and loved ones. In large number, us as Black male do not have the necessary survival instincts as American male. Whether in the jungle or in New York City, or Las Vegas, it's incumbent upon each one of us to aquire those survival instincts, and stop looking for alibis and excuses for not having them. We owe it to our families more so than we owe it to ourselves. Who is going to take care of them when we are gone? Right! No one. It's not Society's fault that you don't care enough about them to be the provider you obligated yourself as according to standards of social legitimacy set forth my mainstream civilization in this country and stop validating our manhood with Third World values. Race relations are not the real victim here. Yes the policemen involved should be charged with murder, thereby held accountable by their loss of livelihood for depriving Sean Bell's fiance and two daughter of his life as family provider. That's right, and race has nothing to do with it.

Posted by: jLibra24 at December 7, 2006 6:50 PM

to MK: "what can change the souls of white people?" Do you hear yourself? The vast majority of "white people" (like any other ethnicity) are good, compassionate, reasonable people. In your racist spew you have somehow made the possibly illegal shooting of black men by NON WHITE NYPD cops into a verdict that whites are responsible for all that is wrong in the world.
to beat rag: start putting bullets in cops and see how fast U.S. cities collapse or turn to the extreme tactics now used by "homeland security" faster than you can say Gitmo.

Posted by: jake at December 7, 2006 7:13 PM

RESPONSE TO COMMENT POSTED BY ANOTHER BADGE AT: Dec 7, 2006 at 4:72 PM

Honey you are right, and with out doubt a Police officer who would show a lack of good perception just like the one who fired 50 bullets on Sean Bell must have naturally all the behavioral problems you cited in your posted comment such as use of illegal drugs, drinking excessively, gambling problem, been an a significant financial debt, and a lack of psychological strength. In addition and at that point, the Police Officer involved in the disaster that took place on Nov 24, 2006 should be tested on the spot for the use of illegal substances and so on… Just because a police Officer who fires 50 bullets on a human being with no grounds must be under doubtable practice and totally unaware.

Posted by: Got Guilt? at December 7, 2006 7:35 PM

Were is Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson when Blood & Crips kill each other.Why wasn't the police records of these young men mentioned. When an auto is used as a weapon the police can use deadly force. Why wasn't it mentioned that most of the cops were themselves minorities.I can't wait till August 2008 it will be White History Month what will you Black's do because the Whites will be the Minority.Can we then have a White Entertainment network.Ivory Magazine, Miss White America,United White College Fund. I urge every White man to purchase a firearm and Ammo. If the Black Pather Party wants to bring war to the suburbs let them be prepaired to die.Enter my house and I will shoot you, then I'll ask you what are you doing here. If you can answer I will shoot you again

Posted by: White Minority at December 7, 2006 9:54 PM

First, well said MK. I will veer from the Sean bell MURDER for a sec just to say this , Black people we care too much about what THEY think of us and not enough about what we think of ourselves. Hate to be the one to break it to you but those white people who think you're a barbarian would think that no matter where u went to school,where u grew up, how much you shucked and jived or how much money you have. The oldest street gang is the KKK , they do not care what we think of them. Venus Hottentot, a black woman(look it up) was displayed in public because of her supposed large genitals, they do not care what we think of them. Black women were gang raped in the Arena's in Europe for sport and entertainment, they do not care what we think of them. Sony currently has a billboard of a white woman grabbing the face of a black woman in an obviously threatening pose to advertise their new PSP- Play Station Portable white is coming is the headline,they do not care what we think of them. Amadou Diallo's murderer's were acquitted,they do not care what we think of them. Sean bell was MURDERED the day he was to marry the black mother of his two baby girls (you know, something that they say we do not do), the other two men were handcuffed to their hospital beds because "they may have had weapons on them" LOL),THEY DO NOT CARE WHAT WE THINK OF THEM! So instead of spending so much time putting on a show for white folk lets get to the business of concerning ourselves with our education, our finances, our children,our parents,our HISTORY,and just becoming better people for US.

Posted by: NATALIE at December 7, 2006 11:47 PM

How many of the people posting comments calling the police murderer's have ever faced someone trying to kill them? Sean Bell and his scum bag friends attempted to kill several cops while trying to avoid capture. The officers that shot them were only trying to protect their lives and the safety of that community. I want to vomit when I read the comments posted by these hate mongers who pretend to be protecting the black race.

Posted by: Rob at December 8, 2006 4:03 AM

I wonder why the cops NYPD or anywhere else feel they need to use the level of force that they do. Obviously from reading these posts they are appriciated and should not feel that approaching a black male or anyone else is a high risk as so many young black males are simply misunderstood and will fully cooperate with them without running, fighting or lieing because they haven't done anything wrong. I think we could resolve a lot of the problems by suspending all laws for one year. Let the police officers go protect thier own families and allow the citizens to work out thier differances themselves. No puishment for any crime for one year. Kill whom you believe needs to be killed, take what you believe you are entitled to, Force yourself onto any woman you want. Accept that the laws that stop the law abiding citizens from doing to you what you do to them would no longer stop them from protecting themselves and administering fair a just punishment on thier own as it would appear the outstanding citizens of these posts want. Give them what they want and I think the problems would be gone and never heard from again.

Posted by: Freedom at December 8, 2006 9:26 AM

riot and burn all you own...then go rape, rob and pillage the working people in your area...perhaps get caught or cornered and fight it out with the law..get yourself shot and we can go through this again....

ask the folks in south central LA about how dumb they felt after they ruined their own 'hood...

Posted by: unkle tom at December 8, 2006 10:05 AM

i would like to donate to the Black Pnather Toy Drive, the Bloods too and the Crips if I can find them...

I would also like to help out on their neighborhood clean-up day if they ever have one...

I'll also help them paint the neighborhood park and fix the benches and playground...

I'll even drive them when they deliver for meals on wheels...

Oh? They don't participate in positive activities? Oh? They only spread hate and violence and serve no legitimate purpose in a civilized society?

Oh well, at least I tried...maybe they should too...

Posted by: unkle tom at December 8, 2006 10:12 AM

My God be with you all

Posted by: The Holy Spirit at December 8, 2006 10:45 AM

@white minority,
White history is 11 months out of the year so, as a "minority", what are you bitchin about? White entertainment network is called ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, MSNBC, HBO, A&E........ United White College Fund is called Legacies, just ask Mr Bush. And Ivory Magazine, Vogue, GoodHousekeeing, Better Homes and Gardens, GQ, Marie Claire, Elle, Guns and Amno, pretty sure you'r familiar with that one, and about 300 more titles that I don't have the time nor inclination to mention. So blacks have 1 TV network, 2 magazines and a miniscule section in your history book and you're bent out of shape? A quote from Mark Twain that you might ponder before opening your ignorant racist mouth, "It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool, than to open it and remove all doubt."

Posted by: theoriginalbitch at December 8, 2006 10:50 AM

So, the US is so bad, is it? Open your eyes - if you want to see real racism, nationalism, tribalism, go to Sudan where slavery and racism are openly practiced, go to Sierra Leone, go to Rwanda, and hear their stories, meatheads.

Amybody who teams up with a thugs like the "Bloods" is an opportunist thug himself. It's the thugs we should go after.

Posted by: a at December 8, 2006 3:20 PM

Gimme a break. 4 Cops shoot 3 perps AFTER overhearing one was going for a gun and AFTER they were told to stop and AFTER they nearly ran one down with their car and AFTER they rammed a police vehicle?..When did the driver STOP acelerating his car into the van - after the 50th shot??.....Still sound unjustified?..Only to those who are literally "color blind"..then you got the "NEW black panther" pointing at police threatening to kill them?....That thug outta be taken and treated like the savage animal he is. Its people like that trying to divide the city for their own personal gain, in this case publicity. But God forbid his momma gets her bag stolen by one of THAT Panthers fellow "brothers" in da hood..then he wants the Police to catch the guy. Convenient. The only thing racial thing about the incident is the angle trying to be played by those seeking to exploit it for their own benefit. Cop tells you to stop and get out of the car, you do. No harm no foul. You don't run him down. Plain n simple.

Posted by: karlr at December 8, 2006 5:17 PM

I've got news for some of you. White people dont sit around plotting how they can fuck up your lives...they are busy working, raising children and paying taxes like most everyone else. Racism is not a one-way street as these posts clearly show. Those of us who truly value justice need to work together, regardless of race, gender and orientation to effect real change in this country. You think its a coincidence police feel free to use whatever force against perceived threats when our smirking President basically says its ok to torture people who dont bow to American control?

Posted by: jake at December 8, 2006 5:21 PM

"Demand" "JUSTICE" for the "Murder" Of Sean Bell and the Attempted "Murder" of his friends, by any means "Necessary."

Show your "SUPPORT" by calling, writing, or send an E~Mail to Mayor Bloomberg, Chief of Police, and the Police Commissioner, Raymond Kelly, to "denounce" the "Murder" of Sean Bell, and the "attempted" "Murder" of his friends.

"IF" they had been "WHITE," this would have "NEVER" happened!!!

E~Mail Addresss of Commissioner Raymond Kelly:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mailnypd.html

E~Mail Address of Mayor Bloomberg:

http://www.nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mayor.html

Posted by: Foxx at December 8, 2006 10:00 PM

"Crooked Cops" Are Enemies to Freedom!!!
Some cops "LIE" and "COMMIT" crimes. So says an admitted former crooked NYPD cop, Robert Cea in a new book featured on the front page of the New York Daily News.

According to this COP'S "OWN" "ADMISSION" it is a "REGULAR" "PRACTICE" to "LIE" ON THE "WITNESS STAND," "FALSIY" "POLICE REPORTS," "selectively" "enforce crimes," and DO "DIRTY" "WORK" and strike shady deals with criminal "informants."

Cea�s former collaborators in the NYPD are, of course, dismissing the claims, BUT THE "REST OF US"SHOULD PAY "GOOD ATTENTION" TO THE "ISSUES" BEING "RAISED."

Even if one argues that the vast majority of law enforcement officials are good and honest, there are more than just a few bad apples that are poisoning their departments and making a mockery of justice.

According to pundit Michelle Malkin, society does not praise cops enough. She also argues that the media only focuses on the bad cops. {That's because the "Majority" are "BAD" COPS, i.e. NYPD!!!}

In her column she lists off the heroic deeds of a few cops that have gone unnoticed as a sign of our ingratitude.

Malkin, a conservative with some good ideas mixed with authoritarian tendencies, also took silliness to a new level last year with a book defending the internment of 112,000 mostly innocent Japanese during World War II. Now she informs us that we don�t show enough respect to our "boys in blue."

This is nonsense. Aside from rap artists mocking police and occasional skeptical media stories directed at law enforcement, cops are usually subject to lavish praise on the news, Hollywood movies and network television shows.

Back from the days of black and white TV, police action movies and dramas have captivated audiences. In modern times, the long running television show "Cops" glorifies the police force.

Multiple other TV programs are law enforcement dramas where police and detectives save the day. In most movies, cops are the good guys. Where there is a bad cop in the movie, he is usually foiled by the good cops.

Not only that, but police are regularly honored by schools, churches and other groups for their service. Also, thinking about running for office? Well, an endorsement from your local police department will never hurt and is usually a plus with the average citizen.

Let�s be very honest, the general perception of cops amongst the public is still pretty good, especially since 9/11.

Apparently, this is not enough for Malkin and other apologists of the post-9/11 emerging Police State.

Negative news stories and negative accusations from the political left regarding police usually have nothing to do with the allegations made by Cea, but instead obsess about supposed "racism" in departments or "racist" acts committed on the job.

While I�m sure such acts do occur in real time and space, many of these accusations are bunk and most of the American public that doesn�t reside on the loony left of the political spectrum sees through it.

But to dismiss them wholly would also be a mistake. The "problem" is "much bigger," however.

The real problem with police today is not racism, but inherent "CORRUPTION" and "ARROGANCE" that is prevalent in law enforcement agencies all around the country. {YES, "RACISIM" is "big problem" within Police Departments around the country, ALSO!!!}

The problem is the law enforcement culture itself which does basically whatever it wants without any accountability from above.

What Cea is describing in his book are practices that are "WELL~KNOWN" to any local cop just about anywhere, not just large powerhouses like the NYPD.

Honest cops will attest to the crimes being committed by their co-workers. And it happens everywhere, all around the country and nobody in any position of power is doing anything to stop it. Instead of accountability, these same cops get mainly praise and popular pundits implore us to show even more fawning adoration for the law enforcement culture.

One former cop I knew from a small town in Michigan quit the police force because of what he saw as rampant corruption.

In his town of just 10,000 or so he reported the same kind of garbage that Cea said occurred in the NYPD: "COPS" "LYING" ON THE STAND, INTENTIONALLY "DISHONEST" POLICE REPORTS,cops collaborating with criminals and all the rest.

Here�s a test: If you know a cop you believe is honest, ask him how often these things occur in his department. His answer will probably shock you.

Who is willing to stand up to the abuse??? NOT MANY PEOPLE.

"COPS" "ROUTINELY LIE" AND "COVER FOR EACH OTHER.

Judges are "NOT" totally oblivious to the excesses of law enforcement, but usually "JUST DON'T CARE," and are willing participants with police. Defendants and regular people stand little chance for a fair trial or fair hearing.

The situation is even worse at the federal level.

The FBI, IRS and other "investigative" and law enforcement federal agencies do basically whatever they please and many times are more corrupt than the people that they are investigating.

Federal prosecutors and federal judges "work" "hand in hand" at making sure the accused are convicted "regardless" of "what the facts" really are. Anyone who has been targeted by the feds or has a family member who has been knows exactly what I�m talking about.

There is so much that could be said about the abuses by law enforcement on all levels that a lengthy book could not even cover it all.

On local, state and federal levels, "entrapment" runs rampant to catch everything from speeders to drug dealers.

But law enforcement officials frequently commit crimes in order to catch the criminals. Hence the very regular practice of undercover law enforcement officials approaching people with drugs and possessing drugs but then arresting people who take the bait.

Then of course there are the very regular well-known practices of cops just sitting around in select locations looking to bust speeders.

Prime spots are usually heavily trafficked roads where the speed limit just dropped (for instance, a busy road where the limit just went from 55 to 45 or 45 to 35).

Before the driver realizes the limit has dropped he is pulled over by a menacing cop who is looking to meet a ticket quota or is just "doing his job" by harassing otherwise law-abiding citizens.

Have a disagreement with a cop and say something he doesn�t like (even politely without profanity)??? Well, get ready to be arrested for disorderly conduct.

Unaware that one of your brake lights is out? Too bad, be prepared to be pulled over and get ready for an uncomfortable interrogation. Not wearing your seatbelt? Click it or ticket, punk.

None of these examples are far-fetched. They go on all the time, everywhere, everyday. Outside of these petty examples are the far more troubling allegations being raised by Cea that also happen far more than anyone wants to admit.

And that�s a huge problem: we know these things exist and we know it happens far more than we let on.

But we want to continue to live in this make-believe world where the cops never do anything wrong and that it�s just a "generalization" to say that the law enforcement culture has a large corrupt element to it.

Yes there are plenty of good cops. But there are "too many bad ones" that are getting away with crimes and an arrogant abuse of power.

The problem goes beyond just the personality of a particular local, state or federal law enforcement official.

The problem is the culture of law enforcement itself that can step all over anyone it chooses with little accountability from lawmakers or the judiciary.

Perhaps Cea�s book and other defectors can help shed light on the troubling trends in law enforcement today.

If Michelle Malkin and other law and order apologists want to serve a good cause, they can take these allegations seriously instead of telling the rest of us to ignore the trampling of our rights.

by Bill Barnwell

May 17, 2005

Bill Barnwell [send him mail] is a pastor in Flushing, Michigan. He spent most of his undergraduate college career studying politics and government before feeling called to the ministry. He has completed a Master of Ministries degree and is currently working towards a Master of Arts in Theological Studies degree at Bethel College in Mishawka, Indiana.

Copyright � 2005 LewRockwell.com

Posted by: Foxx at December 8, 2006 10:07 PM

WE DONT NEED A 40000 MAN POLICE FORCE
SOME ENTIRE STATES DONT HAVE THAT LA ONLY HAS 18000.
WHEN YOU HAVE TOO MANY COPS THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS
INSTEAD OF THEM CONCENTRATING ON REAL SERIOUS CRIMES
THEY HAVE THEM DRINKING IN BARS LOOKING FOR TROUBLE.
POPEYE KELLY AND MONEYCHANGER GRINCH JEWBERG SHOULD BE FIRED NOW.

Posted by: at December 9, 2006 8:24 AM

You people are nuts want war bring it on - maybe the right side will win this time

Posted by: j at December 9, 2006 9:43 AM

As a cop nearing retirement, I and many of my co-workers are in support of getting out of these Somalia-like neighborhoods and letting the savages canibalize each other. The same thing happened in Cincinati. Cops shoot a black criminal and other criminals riot. Cops said "ok, we just wont police these neighborhoods anymore". Murders, robberies, shootings, etc, went through the roof until the black leaders had to literally BEG the police to come back and restore order. I am for the same thing happening in NYC. Let's close down the precinct station houses that are in these uncivilized areas and let them fend for themselves. After they are done canibalizing each other, we'll come back in and clean up the mess...

Posted by: at December 9, 2006 10:12 AM

I agree 50 shots are waaaaaaaaay too many. There should have only been 4. 4 head shots and 4 dead mutts.

Posted by: returnguy at December 9, 2006 8:01 PM

This page shows us how far we have to go as a nation when it comes to race and race issues in America--about another 400 years or more.

STOP THE HATING! WE HAVE ENOUGH COUNTRIES OUT THERE TO HATE US -- WE DON'T NEED ALL THIS FUCKING HATE FROM WITHIN. WHAT WILL BE THE EQUALIZER? WHEN THEY DROP THE FUCKING BOMB ON THIS GREAT COUNTRY, ONLY THEN WILL OUR EYES TRULY BE OPENED -- THAT WE ARE INDEED ONE NATION UNDER GOD. Are we true Christians or what? PEACE.

Posted by: PAHAIRSTON at December 10, 2006 9:00 AM

wait til the white devil brings out that microwave gun that makes people feel like they're being cooked.

problem, uh, solved....

Posted by: mkultra3 at December 10, 2006 2:13 PM

the rise of a new black panther party?? you've got to be kidding me... can't we learn from our past and take a step forward?! perpetuating racial tensions by calling a boycott on "the white man" is going to nothing but make the situation worse. the shooting is about an abuse of police power and should be viewed as an attack on all people - not just black people.

Posted by: bflogirl at December 10, 2006 4:57 PM

Cops may abuse their power from time to time...but they also dont riot when one of their own is murdered by criminals either. I could list the names of all NYPD oficers murdered by "black" people in the past 25 years but it would take up too much space. So lets stop pretending the cops have no reason at all to profile certain groups. They are judging a racial group yes, and that is wrong, but they are doing so not out of simple hate but out of past experience. As far as the shooting would not have happened had it been white men, I wouldnt count on that. When police hear suspects are armed and when suspects attempt to injure using a vehicle, cops will fire first, ask questions later.

Posted by: jake at December 10, 2006 8:15 PM

To respond to Foxx; If this had happened to a white person, it indeed would have happened the same, its just that we wouldnt hear so much about it cuz the media wouldnt give a fuck!

Ive been stopped by police many times and Im white. I have been handcuffed for no reason, put in a choke hold by a dickhead of a cop, insulted , and kicked in the leg. I didnt fight back, because that would only give the cops more fuel to fuck with me. So black ppl should stop feeling like its only them who get treated bad. If they were smart they would think about the kid they got at home, and that would keep them from giving cops reason to do a Rodney on 'em. Cops do tend to get pissed when you got guns and try running them over in Nissan Altimas.

Posted by: perplexed person at December 12, 2006 4:55 AM

First to the so called "peace officer" onhere who posted "bring it"..you are an idiot. Someone whio has never been under fire and never had to deal with taking anothers life.It is officers like you who watch cops and the shield and think that is what policing is and cause the problems. I have seen too many of your kind, all gung ho about law enforcement, you got 50 million lights on your car, 300 rds of ammo and and two hold out guns on you at all time, and keep an assualt rifle in the car. But the first time a round comes your way your screaming like a little girl and shooting wildly while your ass trys to outrun your feet. when they do "bring it" your death will be justified Becuase you have abused your mandate and became nothing more than a thug with a badge. Also someone asked " how many officers die every year...?" well,the answer is 155 for the year of 2005. the next logical question would be "how many citizens are killed by the police each year?"
that answer is harder to come up with...for some reason agencies dont like reporting information that could be embarrasing or even damaging. Though a 1994 law requires the department of justice to collect the information, the program stopped recieving funding after 1998. But the departments most current estimate is about 400 people per year are killed every year by the police..this estimate doesnt differentiate between justifiable homicide and murder, though obviously the police would say all the incedents were, while unfortunate were justified. But lets look at the numbers...in 2005 we had 155 police killed by citizens, and about 400 cititzens killed by the police. that a ratio of a little better than 2 to 1. I believe th numbers speak for themselves. The best solution i can think of is to take firearms from the average street/patrol officer, giving him only nonlethal weapons for his personal defense. obviously there will be times when lethal force is necessary and the use of special teams such as swat would be called in for such occasions and i even say that the shift superviser and maybe one or two other officers could carry firearms a s a quick response element to back up officers who may find themselves in a situation where lethal force may become necessary. I know all the police will bitch and moan they need their guns for protections...but with a kill ratio or 2.5 to 1 self defence ceases to be valid argument. besides most officer who want to a policeman(woman) just to have guns, well they are not really the best type of person for the job. Nobody said being the good guy was safe or easy, in fact being the good guy means sometimes you have to fight with one hand tied behind your back. when i went through my traing, years ago ( im not in that field anymore) we were told our firearms were not to be used to force compliance. Our instructer laughed at the policy. We were taught what the law and department policys were on many issue, use of force being one of them, then we were told unofficialy how to get around those laws and policies. I know this isnt unique to my former employer nor is it unique to law enforcment... it is the way humans are. Which is why we have to take authority away from our government and its agencies time to time, just o keep em honest. Well this rant has gone on long enough but ill close with this: its a tragedy when anyone dies, be it a crack dealer or a cop, but if the police continue to abuse their mandate then they, as a group, share responciblity for all deaths resulting from those abuses...even their own.

Posted by: Jon at December 12, 2006 10:18 AM

GET A LIFE!!! TRY DOING THE JOB OF A POLICE OFFICER FIRST, THEN JUDGE WHATS RIGHT AND WRONG. TOO DAMN MANY LIBERAL PEOPLE OUT THERE JUDGING WHAT OTHERS SHOULD HAVE DONE. STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND THEN YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO MAKE JUDGEMENT, TIL THEN SIT BACK ON YOUR WELFARE CHECKS AND KEEP PUMPING OUT KIDS THAT NO ONE WANTS.

Posted by: bjp at December 12, 2006 10:53 AM

bjp- I have had my turn at bat, both on the road, in the city jail and a state correctional facility. I left that field because i saw too many abuses and yes, i committed abuses, and could no longer say that what i and my compatriots were doing was right...if not often illegal. If you are in the law enforcement field, then you know what i am talking about becuase you have seen it and probably been involved in some less than legal, not quite by the book actions. From stopping a car just becuase the driver was white in a "black" neighborhood to "cage Tests" ( where an imaginary deer or dog suddenly jumps out in front of you as you are transporting a belligerent suspect, "forcing" you to step on the brakes and, by the laws of physics, forcing you