I definitely think that there's truth in the concern that the TWU is being unfairly singled out. There was an op-ed by E.J. McMahon (whom I usually don't cite!) in The New York Post basically arguing that the pension issue should be the subject of state legislation addressing governmental unions generally, rather than be the focus of one particular collective bargaining negotiation. I think that the TWU had made many good points into the run up to the strike deadline (the foolishness of one person trains, the MTA's proclivity to leave riders in human being-less stations, the MTA's cloudy past financial report). Which is why I think it was a tragic mistake to go on strike with the likely prospect of losing public support as the strike lingers on during the holiday season. Governor Pataki, where are you? What if he doesn't constructively intervene? What would Times Square be like on New Year's Eve without transit?

Posted by: Gene Russianoff at December 21, 2005 4:08 PM

Im sick of bloomberg playing the tough guy. Its time for him to get to the point and find a compromise instead of name calling and acting like hes a tough guy when hes really just a whimp

Posted by: bill teag at December 21, 2005 4:17 PM

I'd fire them all, hire replacements at what the union is asking for + 10%

Posted by: keith at December 21, 2005 4:34 PM

When I was young there was always an impending transit strike at New Years. This is not an unusual event. While I am not a union member, it does seem silly to strike at a time when there will be no effect. Why wasn't this issure resolved before this time. Maybe the intent was to make the union look bad.
Grow up New York and deal with the important issues without all the drama.

Posted by: Len at December 21, 2005 4:51 PM

Gene Russianoff writes... "the pension issue should be the subject of state legislation...". I may not be aware of all the particulars regarding the strike but to this point I would reply "I sure hope not". The last thing which is needed is more government involvement. Plus, is it impartial to other public employees in New York (and to citizens outside of the city) that the state get involved in a single municipality?s benefits issue ? I don?t think so.

I think bigger picture, unions (regardless of service or commodity provided) are under attack and most will be broken in the near future. The sun is setting on the 20th century manifestation of what we call a "union". The TWU will follow the UAW and others into obscurity. Unions were completely necessary around the turn of the last century. However, and I don?t know how this happened, unions are now synonymous with poor quality, lazy workforces, and expensive products (to pay for things like no-deductible health care and jobs banks). Things like market forces, technology, politics, and economies will make this happen. Mark my worlds, it will indeed happen... regardless of what a given union?s membership does or does not vote upon.

Posted by: CW at December 21, 2005 5:15 PM

Unfortunately, unions in the late 20th and early 21st century have become unnecessary appendages, who for the most part serve to enforce mediocrity. As most worker in the US have found out, the days of sweat shops are many years in the past, and the marketplace of skills drives the demand for those who invest in their own education and work hard.

Union members like those in the TWU are paid more than average New Yorkers, more than they should be for the value of the work they provide, and have a benefits/pension/retirement plan that is beyond belief. Despite all this, the fact that striking is illegal, and the very generous offers being made by the MTA, they have gone on strike.

Are we supposed to be sympathetic to them?

Posted by: Neil Axelrod at December 21, 2005 5:32 PM

This city government has been doing silly deals that benefit the wealthy few. No one is dealing with the pension debacle that is happening across the country. The working guy has to contribute to the pension plan but the rule governing pension are very lousy-goosey for the employer on their contribution end.

The unions are stupid and a fool if they don't stand behind their brother and help resolve this issue and i totally disagree that this is stupid and wasteful...the union need to get out there and get their side out...Keep talking pension, pension, pension...and then hold up Enron, Enron, Enron and see who the american people support.

Posted by: Jeanette at December 21, 2005 5:33 PM

Without public transportation, there can be no NYC. In the long run, saving $$ on benefits is no different than saving $$ on payroll, and cheaping out on the people that run the system will lead to crappy public transportation, which will ruin the city. Though it wouldnt surprise me if thats what Bloomberg wants- he can cause the system which works reasonably now to get worse, which would then be an excuse to privatize it, which means big bucks for whoever buys it for a small fraction of its value. Same old story.

Posted by: pete at December 21, 2005 6:10 PM

Toussaint has made a very risky gamble putting the future of his workers at risk.

Times have changed, healthcare costs have skyrocketed in recent years, and pension liabilities are ballooning as people live longer. It is now the norm for employees to partition a portion of their income into a 401k or other form of tax deferred savings account in order to plan for retirement, with their employer hopefully matching them up to 4% to 6% of their salary. It is also extremely rare for a public employee to enjoy healthcare coverage without some form of contribution. Meanwhile, many people are concerned when their employers institute mandatory retirement policy at age 67 or 72—people who take pride in their jobs, but also need to continue building their nest egg.

Instead, Toussaint has broadcast to the world that NYC transit workers are a largely overpaid and underperforming lot. How many of the city's unemployed or underemployed would jump at the chance to earn over $50k a year for working in a obsolescent token booth? What percentage of NYC's janitorial staff would turn down $40k a year plus full medical? Better yet, how many of us would jump at the chance to retire at 55 with a lifetime salary and benefits if all we had to do was contribute 6% of our salary for 10 years? Mind you, today technology has made a large number of the transit worker’s jobs redundant or obsolete.

Please do not get me started on Toussaint’s demand for a limit on the number of disciplinary actions taken against transit workers. Why don’t you try by improving their performance or decreasing the number of violations?

I would be interested to see a study that breaks out percentage of the subway fare that goes to cover pension costs, and how that is to grow over the next 20 years. Where does he expect the money to come from to cover these pension costs and salary increases? The NYC transit system does not have the luxury of filing for bankruptcy; any deficit comes out of our tax dollars.

If the MTA is smart it will wait out the TWU and let it go bankrupt under its fines. Furthermore, it should not act so eagerly to forgive the fines against the individual employees, they are equally as culpable for following the illegal orders of the local leadership. Lastly, the TWU should be made to account for the damage and inconvenience it has brought upon NYC during the strike—the MTA would be foolish not to insist on an increase in retirement age along with 6% contribution for new hires. If the members feel they are being dealt a raw hand, they can feel free to call employees at Northwest or GM and ask their opinions.

Posted by: Earl D. Babst at December 21, 2005 6:21 PM

Sounds like people want the mayor to intervene when it's not the mayor's job. It's the governor's job. Where is Pataki?
And what kind of person authorizes a mass transit strike in NYC a week before Christmas? A sadistic egomaniac. For that you have to look to Mr. Toussaint. If he thinks this strike is going to gain respect for transit workers he's been smoking PCP.

Posted by: Betsy Donahoe at December 21, 2005 6:25 PM

"Are we supposed to be sympathetic to them?"

Am I supposed to be sympathetic toward the MTA, Mr Axelrod? The same organization that managed to "creatively account" away a surplus of nearly a half a billion dollars into a paltry $40 million last year? The same organization that keeps claiming they're going to have a deficit at the end of the year but then somehow end up with a $1 billion surplus this year? The same organization that caused this strike by suddenly bringing up and subsequently trying to force a 6% pension deduction onto the table only a few hours before the Tuesday morning strike deadline? A pension change no less that would have saved them a measely $20 million over the next 3 years and maybe $160 million over the next decade? NYPD overtime costs more than that for one single day of striking. The MTA has a budget surplus. If they're worried about not having $160 million over the next decade then allocate $160 million of that $1 billion and put it into an interest bearing savings account. Is that so difficult? No, instead we have to screw the working man while the MTA executive director gets a 22% raise (http://www.onnyturf.com/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=176).

Sorry if I don't feel sympathetic towards an organization that apparently has enough money to give executive officers 22% raises due to the budget surplus but can't manage to keep that 6% pension payment off the negotiating table? Screw them. I'll support the TWU on this one.

The MTA asked for this strike. Blame them, blame Chairman Kalikow for provoking the TWU, and blame Governor Pataki for not stepping in to bring about a constructive solution.

Posted by: at December 21, 2005 7:00 PM

"Are we supposed to be sympathetic to them?"

Am I supposed to be sympathetic toward the MTA, Mr Axelrod? The same organization that managed to "creatively account" away a surplus of nearly a half a billion dollars into a paltry $40 million last year? The same organization that keeps claiming they're going to have a deficit at the end of the year but then somehow end up with a $1 billion surplus this year? The same organization that caused this strike by suddenly bringing up and subsequently trying to force a 6% pension deduction onto the table only a few hours before the Tuesday morning strike deadline? A pension change no less that would have saved them a measely $20 million over the next 3 years and maybe $160 million over the next decade? NYPD overtime costs more than that for one single day of striking. The MTA has a budget surplus. If they're worried about not having $160 million over the next decade then allocate $160 million of that $1 billion and put it into an interest bearing savings account. Is that so difficult? No, instead we have to screw the working man while the MTA executive director gets a 22% raise (http://www.onnyturf.com/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=176).

Sorry if I don't feel sympathetic towards an organization that apparently has enough money to give executive officers 22% raises due to the budget surplus but can't manage to keep that 6% pension payment off the negotiating table? Screw them. I'll support the TWU on this one.

The MTA asked for this strike. Blame them, blame Chairman Kalikow for provoking the TWU, and blame Governor Pataki for not stepping in to bring about a constructive solution.

Posted by: Brooklyn Citizen at December 21, 2005 7:01 PM

All I know is that every day the union strikes I have to shell out $50 extra bucks for cab rides. These guys already make more money than me which I am fine with. I don't even have a pension plan and I am fine with it too. However, just because they want to retire at 50, get a 24% percent raise and keep a pension plan you would never find in the private sector, shouldn't mean I have to put out a bunch of extra cash each day.

Posted by: Bill Dyson at December 21, 2005 7:30 PM

I am totally confused about the objective of the strike. Is the objective to cause MTA to loss money on the ridership or TWU is trying to gain public support from the strike? MTA will lose money but this could be achieve during a warmer weather (spring or summer). TWU is not getting more public support because the people that been affected are mainly poor. Majority of people living in the city and depend on mass transits are making less money and receive fewer benefits which TWU enjoy. TWU is doing an excellent job of spreading their misery to other. The small businesses's hope of increase in sells during Christmas time go up in smoke. This could mean turning a profit or going in red. The added costs to travel to and from work on many people could mean no gifts to their children. All people that get sick caused by walking or waiting in 20 degree weather will surely remember the strike. The argument that TWU working and paying conditions at a disgraceful level is ridicule. There are thousand of applicants line up in blocks to take any job opening exam. There is nothing good come out of the strike. I believes TWU will agree with MTA latest offer with minor changes in the end.

Posted by: Alan at December 21, 2005 9:15 PM

I think it's a good thing that the union,is taking care of the real workers of Manhattan,these people have been taking New Yorkers home, in the middle of the night, drunk and in a lot of cases bleeding to death, and yet the people that use their services have the nerve to spit on their faces by not being on their side,just because they don't even care if they live or die in a society where rent is rocketing high priced, and taxes and morgage, is just as expensive that only the very rich can afford and furthermore, is the fact that,the very rich who are not even born in Mahattan, have the plan of living in NY city, by displacing the real New Yorkers,that work so hard in that city to make just enough, to survive and provide almost, and not always, decent living for their families,from their home.Just because they feel that they have enough money and they are going to make Mahattan their home, how prissy.
It's time for the people that use the trains and busses, to realize that these workers are making their lifes easier, by providing transportation services, and can make their lifes a perfect heaven, or a living hell, because they work and put up with a very hard work, wich is the demanding attitude of the middle to upper class of manhattan people, and yet it's a slap on their faces not to get the suport of the passengers, that think that one day(and even now)they will be just as important and rich,like the ones that come from another state,(with a lot of money), want to make NYC their home, just because they believe in the dollar directely, and not GOD as first choice.

Posted by: CARM at December 21, 2005 9:37 PM

Bloomberg remarks- calling the TWU union leadership thugs- was certainly over the top.....it was a coded attempt to stigmatize and emasculate the laregly minority union.......this by a man who used his millions to buy support and "thuggisly" overwhelm Ferrer......
Roger is a proud West Indian American with a long history of Caribbean radicalism behind him......As someone so aptly commented;" Bloomberg needs to be remeinded that this is not Tel Aviv and he will never brings this union to its knees as he did with the city unions by subtly "thugging" their so called leaders with his $$$$$$"
Would he have used this term-"fighting words" to the Teachers Union head(Jewish) or to the PBA head(Irish)...yet he would dare do this in a minority demographically inclined city
if he Bloomberg is so concerned about the poor and working class let him use his billions for a good cause, to help feed them,and shop for Xmas!
Bet he would not dare call Roger a "Thug" in a face to face encounter
Oh how we long for Freddie!!!
Let him read the works of MLK,George Padmore,ClR James etc etc!But then again Billionaires need not read when they can use their billions to coopt the corrupt ,marginalize and sideline the so called Black and minority leaders.How dare he????

Posted by: aubrey w bonnett at December 21, 2005 10:32 PM

while the media keeps portraying the union as the culprits in this situation, they fail to comment or note that the lack of leadership from the city and state/mta elected officials is one of the contributing causes of this strike.

the governor, who is not seeking re-election next year has failed the public in this matter by not stepping up to the plate and encouraging both sides to hammer this out in a matter that is fair to the union and the public.

the mayor, who won his reelection already with his fat pockets, and does not need to worry about using mass transit on a daily basis (though it is "heartwarming" to see him walk the bridge and give soundbites about "families making $10-20K a years are the victims blah blah blah") has failed the city by not to using his leadership position to persuade both sides to resolve this matter. i'm sure he would have taken a more pro-active stance had the mayor's election been next year.

the mayor and governor keep going on about how the union should get back to work, well

YOU GET BACK TO WORK MAYOR AND GOVERNOR AND PROVIDE SOME LEADERSHIP IN THIS MATTER!!!

Posted by: josephmsara at December 21, 2005 11:05 PM

Bill,

Please remember that those "average" salary figures you keep seeing are grossly misrepresented. The $50 K figures do _not_ represent take-home pay. I wish someone would provide sources for what the actual base salaries are so that we can put an end to this nonsense.

Also, I'd urge you not to blame the union for the cash you're shelling out. Blame the MTA and Gov Pataki.

Posted by: Brooklyn Citizen at December 21, 2005 11:27 PM

I wonder if the NYPD is infiltrating the bike pools like they do the monthly critical mass rides. See:

"New York Police Covertly Join In at Protest Rallies" by Jim Dwyer in the Thurs Dec 22 Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/22/nyregion/22police.html

Posted by: Brian at December 21, 2005 11:38 PM

Tom, I don't understand the post. It starts by saying that the TWU's stance against the stadium is hurting labor solidarity, but Malloy's comments, and his offer to call the Mayor, sound supportive of the TWU. I mean, he's not calling the Mayor to say "stick it to 'em," right?

Posted by: Anonymous at December 21, 2005 11:38 PM

ending the strike is extremely simple.

offer an incentive. any workers who cross the picket line will not only not lose 2 days of pay for each day striking but also get paid for the days that they did strike plus they can recieve the deal the mta put on the table that toussaint, not the union or the union members but rather toussaint, rejected. everyone else who still doesnt cross the picket line and come back to work? fire them. the strike will immediately end. let the workers decide and force toussaint to stop grandstanding and pushing his own agenda, which he apparently has begun doing.

Posted by: the problem solver at December 22, 2005 12:56 AM

The people posting that there are no reason for unions forget that unions are the reason there are no more sweatshops to speak o in the United States. They are the reason you have a 40-hour work week, and they are the reason you get overtime when you work more than that. I think everyone who opposes unions should also lose all legal protections brought about by unions. Let's see how they think then.

Posted by: Bob at December 22, 2005 12:57 AM

Same ol' battle, different arena. The American workers' rights and benefits get stripped away, health care and pension plans crumble, and then these local battles difuse the greater problem. Every single labor-management battle in the past ten years has had a health-care or pension component to it. THAT'S BECAUSE THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IS INTRINSICALLY BROKEN AND MUST BE ALLOWED TO FALL AWAY. Put your flag away and start inventing the new country that will certainly follow the very-soon decline and fall of the USA. The greed heads at the top have a gun pointed at your forehead. Do you think complaining that "it's not fair" is gonna change anything? No, they are working overtime to pit the American people against each other so they don't notice that they are getting phucked in the a$$. It's time to send a message to Washington D.C., and all the other criminal thug politicians who think fascism is a great sport, that they are all FIRED, the gov't is CLOSED, and we are starting over. No more bandaids...unless you want to find yourself in a concentration camp. These people are all criminals, nothing more. They need to be treated that way.

Posted by: Manderso Nation at December 22, 2005 2:59 AM

A few continuing thoughts in regards to the strike…

Many of the strikes supporters argue that Pataki, Bloomberg, and the MTA were foolish to “force a strike” that would cost the city over a billion dollars in order to save $160 million over the next few years. Never mind the fact that Bloomberg was not involved in the process until the strike began—the MTA did not force anything on the TWU. Rather, in the determination of the TWU’s parent organization, they negotiated in good faith with a counterpart that never provided any counter offers or appears to have had any intention of reaching a fair resolution. This line of argument by TWU supporters is akin to justifying a Mob boss for destroying a small business owner’s property for not paying the above market price for his waste disposal services.

Furthermore, Bloomberg’s characterization of the strike as “selfish” and “thuggish” is accurate. Those minority leaders who are trying to use introduce the race card are doing damage to the minorities the purport to represent. The words “selfish” and “thug” are adjectives used to describe the actions of people, universally, regardless of race or creed. The fact that the TWU is largely comprised of African Americans and Latinos does not alter the meaning or accuracy of the comments. Inconveniencing the lives of 7 million people and threatening the financial stability of countless others for one’s personal gain by disregarding the law is selfish. Threatening and then causing $400 million in damages a day to a city so you can get take your pound of flesh (or two… or three…) is thuggish. When the shoe fits…

Lastly, Toussaint should have considered it a tremendous success that he was able to get 10% pay increase and maintain the 55 year retirement age for all his current members. In reality, he should have been facing large work force reductions as a result of a rollout in single conductor trains and vending machines reduce staffing needs.

Posted by: Earl D. Babst at December 22, 2005 9:18 AM

Bob,
i don't get paid overtime and i work more than 40 hours a week. Many of my friends work more than 40 hours a week and don't get paid overtime.
My father works more than 40 hours a week and doesn't get paid overtime. My grandfathers worked 7 days a week and didn't get paid overtime.

Posted by: lou at December 22, 2005 10:45 AM

Exactly, Manderso. Divide and conquer, baby.

Instead of sticking together, workers are propagandized to resent those with decent benefits instead of fighting for their own. We've been falling for this one for years now. The Republicans work is almost done.

Posted by: aw at December 22, 2005 10:55 AM

Are these transit workers and union out of their minds? 8 percent raises, not paying anything into healthcare or pensions and retirement at 55?

FIRE EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM!

Posted by: Carl Weber at December 22, 2005 11:30 AM

I am utterly disgusted with the arrogance of the Union and complete disregard for those who depend on the NY transit system. The pension issue is not specific to the Union but also for all of Corporate America. These Union guys while they are admirable for securing the future of everyone are too selfish to understand the economics of any company able to sustain these type of benefits. Look at GM! There is not one company that can provide the benefits that the Union is looking for. Now, if the workers were exemplerary in their services, then I could be more understanding but these guys are so damn lazy, overpaid, selfish. We should outsource this whole stupid group to technology or other people looking for job. I bet the service would be a lot better and the workers more productive.

Complete imbeciles!

Posted by: Jr at December 22, 2005 11:33 AM

Its unbelievable that the media, Bloomberg and Pataki and even other fellow New Yorkers are treating the TWU like criminals. With all this talk of breaking the law it is amazing that the Kalikow's MTA has never been brought up for its illegal pratices of dual books. How soon we forget? The ever present talk of deficits at the MTA is just propoganda to ensure that top level executives are paid....Bloomberg and Pataki dare utter illegal when they allow workers in various sectors of the public service arena to go without contracts!!? The media once again shows that integrity no longer exists in journalism. Instead of a balanced, objective view of the situation we get a biased view that is repeatedly anti-labor. Finally. if New Yorkers would stop being so selfish and thinking about how the strike is effecting their lives they might be able to see that a win against the billionaires that sit on the top watching as we chase dreams that never come true, is a victory for us all. And the people who say that the MTA employees are overpaid are - - - holes.

Posted by: RC at December 22, 2005 11:39 AM

I share the outrage of my fellow New Yorkers who for almost three entire days have been forced to pay attention to those "selfish" ingrates who operate the world's largest subway/bus system.

How dare they fight to hold on to good middle class jobs with health care and a pension! Reminds me of that uppity Martin Luther King and the ILLEGAL sanitation strike in Memphis in 1968.

Happily our politicians were equal to the challenge. I'm sure no one will soon forget that steely look of resolve in Bloomberg's eyes as he minced across the Brooklyn Bridge, proletarian jeans nicely counterbalanced by those tasseled loafers.

Although the strike was short, at least Bloomberg had time to hint at a little more of his grand Billionaire's Vision for New York, and what everybody's role will be. As grand as the BVNY is, unfortunately, it simply can't include ALL the people who live here now, and as the Hudson Yards fiasco demonstrated, Billionaires know best, so the MTA's property is best handed from one Billionaire to another. Remember, the BVNY holds that the proper role for municipal workers, all workers actually, is to serve the wealthy, and if anyone forgets that, Bloomberg will be there to remind us all that such behavior is "thuggish".

As inspiring as Bloomberg's performance was, Pataki certainly put him in the shade. Suggesting that the negotiations were best "left to the professionals", while reserving the right for himself to snipe from the sidelines as he held Kalikow's coat was, of course, standard Pataki. But this time was special, since it was Pataki's decision to gut the MTA's capital budget to free up more tax cuts for the wealthy that helped exacerbate the MTA's crushing debt service in the first place. The genius of it is that he both avoided any personal accountability and got to blame others - and a 70% black and latino union must have seemed heavensent, just the place to start the pension dilution ball rolling. Icing on the cake was the irresistable opportunity to further his Imaginary Presidential Bid by taking his 'tough anti-union stance' over New Yorkers' heads directly to Red staters.
Such a clever plan, the Bloomberg/Pataki/REPUBLICAN scheme, how dare the TWU refuse to quietly go along!
Perhaps the same folks who complain that the TWU has too sweet a deal because they don't have as sweet a deal themselves would be better served by wondering why they don't have decent health care and a pension to look forward to. It's not the TWU preventing them from getting that, and sadly we all get exactly the government we deserve. I wonder just whose fault it might be? As the old labor song puts it "Which Side Are You On?"

Posted by: Victor at December 22, 2005 8:18 PM

When the buses and subways begin running again, there should be a one-week period during which any New Yorker who wishes may spit at any MTA employee they see.

Posted by: at December 22, 2005 11:17 PM