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Guest 05/15/2011 11:08:00 PM
To imply that John Lamensdorf was in any way responsible for his death is unspeakable. John was killed when a lift struck overhead power lines. PERIOD. NO ONE in charge even checked the status of the lines. You are a coward for not identifying yourself.
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guest 05/10/2011 8:11:00 PM
I was there with the crew and it was a miracle that only one person passed away. The students that were there did not listen to the advice about laying the cables on the wet ground and many other thing. Lamensdorf was by himself behind the abandoned house messing with the lights on the very wet ground.
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86ericd 03/14/2011 1:08:00 AM
Many things could have gone better. It's irresponsible to blame it on any one choice.
A BIG part of any preproduction to a set is making sure all safety precautions were met. Including making contact to any emergency lines. All sets should even include directions to the nearest hospital to crew members. As well as do research to all nearby dangerous hazards.
There should always be experience electricians being the ones in control of all the eletricity on set. But most film schools don't even cover basic electricity. The students had a 12,000 watt light, film equipment that could crush a person if dropped at the wrong time. there are countless dangers on any given set.
At the end of the day, the operator of the condor was the person who made the last mistake leading to the death of this film student. But there were plenty of other steps missed that could have prevented it. And more than that, even if all precautions were made, sometimes horrible accidents still happen.
I don't think the lesson of this should be "who should I blame" but who can we now teach all film students the absolute safest way to run any set. This is a wake up call to everyone in any position on a set.
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Ajaynejr 03/09/2011 11:39:00 PM
This tragedy appears to be solely due to careless use of aerial equipment (the Condor) near overhead electrical wires and there probably was a warning notice about that subject on the Condor.
While safety precautions need to be taken while operating an electrical generator and installing lights and other equipment, that does not appear to have contributed to this tragedy.
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Gaffergags 05/03/2010 10:45:00 AM
There is one person a day KILLED by mistakes made with electricity. No one should be killed trying to do there job whether on a film set or writing/working in an office. Life is dangerous. Safety rules/laws and job practices are written in blood. Hopefully this unfortunate death of a student will cause many more people to be careful and maybe save someone's life.
Operating a boom lift is a skill only some of which can be taught in a safety class. OSHA REQUIRES that any one using a boom lift (Condor) be trained. In those training classes the student is supposed to be trained that equipment shall not be secured to the basket. There is a special ADVANCED course given to attach lighting equipment to the basket. In both the regular and the advanced classes there is a great deal of emphasis put on the safe approach distances to overhead wires.
I am very sorry for both the parents and the fellow students of the man that was killed, no one should be killed trying to learn a craft or trade.
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04/25/2010 1:14:00 PM
A lot of posters here should go play the world's smallest violin. Screw you kids and your stupid, criminal school.
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an observer 04/25/2010 9:34:00 AM
From another post above -- "Might even be able to work something out with IATSE 52 like a mentoring program."
I graduated from NYU's film program many years ago, and I have friends who have graduated from film programs overseas -- and upon graduation, they become members of the union, since the union has been involved with their college studies. I don't understand why the unions and NYU still do not have that type of working relationship.
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innercity 04/20/2010 5:12:00 AM
As an outsider to the institution and any of the people involved, I'm fascinated by the repeated denials of responsibility for the unsafe working conditions on the set. It seems the non-NYU crew member has been scapegoated the most, but what about the D.P. who kept repositioning the light, or the director who agreed to the condor, or the location manager and the tech scout team? I do believe the whole lot of them are well-suited to work in Hollywood. Never take responsibility, never say you are sorry for anything, become hostile toward any criticism.
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Jake Pollock 04/15/2010 1:21:00 PM
i graduated from the film program in 1996 and can recall shooting an award-winning student thesis film with NYU GEAR ONLY and yet we still tied-in to street lamp posts. I can also recall our instructors Lamar Sanders and Michael Carmine informally addressing the issues of tie-ins, mostly the safety risks involved. I also remember religiously reading technical manuals that also mentioned the safety risks. However, there are just too many ways shit can go wrong.
An accident like this is unfortunate to say the least. And the fact that it stems from an electrical mishap makes it all the scarier. Tying-in is also an everyday (and illegal) event in low-budget filmmaking.
The only way to really address that issue is having a generator on set with a qualified technician. It wouldn't cost that much for NYU to outsource a small 400A genny and an operator for the dozen or so thesis films that shoot every year. Could also serve as a shop-steward technical advisor for the students. Might even be able to work something out with IATSE 52 like a mentoring program.
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Anonymous 04/14/2010 7:46:00 AM
I'm currently an NYU film major, and this past year I've experienced first-hand all the changes to production supervision procedures that NYU has implemented. The entire process has been re-thought. While the new system is frustrating at the moment, there are professors, administrators and students working to improve it as quickly as possible. A Production Supervisor has been assigned to oversee each intermediate/advanced film - I personally had to submit an extensive packet of information to this Production Supervisor in order to move forward with my intermediate production. I'm insulted by your references to NYU's supposed attempts to cover up the accident - I know members of the administration who are nothing but compassionate, caring individuals who only wish to do what's best for each student involved in the accident. I can't speak for NYU's legal representatives or the higher-ups in the NYU administration, but I whole-heartedly believe in the Tisch film community, and its administrators, professors and students. I recently attended the First Run Film Festival, and was present when "Only Criminal" was screened. I was deeply moved by the people who spoke about John Lamensdorf before the screening. These people spoke of this young man's impact on his peers and his friends. So, yes, Mr. Thrasher, members of the Tisch community are unwilling to gossip and sensationalize the accident. But we intend to remember it and move forward and make changes in positive ways. As someone who did not personally know the people affected by this accident, I am still deeply changed after hearing about it. Your article lacks depth and insight into the entire situation, and the title is unbelievably offensive. Please issue an apology to the students named in the article.
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LuLu 04/13/2010 9:49:00 PM
Has NYU issued a statement? What about the professor?
It's a really awful situation but seems to have been entirely preventable.
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Star 04/13/2010 9:00:00 PM
Let me get this straight: A professor and a student think because "only one student died" that NYU and those involved are not responsible??????!!!!!!!! No big deal????? One death isn't enough???? How stupid and misguided are they???? And, if NYU students are so well trained in safety, what the hell were they doing with this type of equipment so close to power lines in the first place??? Guess they skipped that class. Why didn't someone just say - Move the equipment!!!!!! And, where was the director - Simon??cgku when everything blew up????? His name isn't even mentioned throughout the events of the incident. Honestly, unitl NYU, the professor and the students making the decisions about the equipment take responsibility, some responsibility, no closure will ever come for them ever. I am just an observer who knows of some of those mentioned in the article and I have never heard that anyone has said they are sorry for their actions that night.
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Nicholas Facks 04/13/2010 1:00:00 AM
As someone who went to NYU film school and never heard this story, I was surprised and fascinated to read this article. Sensationalism or not, it shares the story with the world, which is more than NYU did. NYU is a business, and a powerful one, at that. Thrasher is daring to hold NYU accountable, which I think is commendable. What else should NYU be held accountable for? Who else should NYU be held accountable to?
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becky 04/12/2010 7:05:00 PM
thank you, katrina, for your comment. i wholeheartedly agree with you.
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Anonymous 04/12/2010 5:09:00 PM
As a current NYU student and a friend of all those involved, I believe that Mr. Thrasher and the Village Voice owe the people so slanderously named in this article a public apology. It is a shame such lowly miscreants like Mr. Thrasher are allowed to publish anything.
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No Name 04/12/2010 10:14:00 AM
What a terrible tragedy. My heart goes out to the parents, but suing the people who tried to help is just wrong.
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Eric Pato 04/11/2010 9:48:00 AM
I preface this by saying that I am a graduating senior at NYU in the UGFTV program. Friends and acquaintances are mentioned in this article, some of whom I know well for their skill, professionalism, and talent. I say this so that it is clear and admitted that I am highly biased towards NYU in this affair. I have loved my four years here in the city, have been on many projects, and love and will continue to work with the friends I've made for the rest of my life. This is my school. Now that that is out of the way, let's move on to the point.
NYU cares about, and constantly teaches us safety. There is no ban or block or clampdown on talking about this event; though most of us, out of both respect to our still grieving friends and our own lack of direct experience in the events, do not talk about it directly. We instead talk about the implications, results, and general efforts we are undertaking to make sure that such a tragedy does not occur again. We work with heavy, potentially dangerous equipment, lights and electrical gear, generators, and a variety of tools of the trade which, as anyone who works in the industry can tell you, are potentially deadly, and we know this. Yes, this fact is more real to us now following last years events, but we have been told, warned and taught about this from the first orientation of our program freshman year. Every single major production course involves thorough safety techs, required to pass the course. Our technical courses, like those teaching camera, sound, and lighting technique, go even further in depth with these facts, and the idea of safety and danger are deeply in grained in our mind.
This is not to say mistakes are not made; I myself have received some injuries (minor ones) on set, due to my own inexperience or carelessness, and learned from them. A burn from a light on my arm, minor hearing damage from misuse of sound equipment, small cuts and bruises. These things happen, and we try to avoid them, and we are almost always ready to deal with them. In NYU's history, one literally involving several thousand student films, there has been a single death. And the school and the students have (for the most part, I am quite aware of irresponsible and dishonest decisions made by, shock and awe, college students) have redoubled their efforts to continue to produce excellent, flexible, safe works of art. Having worked on NYU student and professional shoots, I can tell you that the only true difference is scale, the same kind of skill, professionalism, and devotion have defined my experiences in both, and if I have learned one thing, it's that NYU is a community which cares deeply about its students, and wants us to live to see our dreams met and our skills fully realized.
And it remains, despite this tragedy, one of the foremost institutions on the planet for doing this. I stand by my education here, and would not trade it for anything in the world.
PS: Your article, particularly its title and presentation, are sensationalist, infuriating crap, and take away any legitimacy the rest of the article has, and presenting this during our annual student film festival is beyond tactless. Think about what you're writing, please. These wounds are still fresh, and you're just ripping them open to fester.
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Ray 04/09/2010 11:04:00 PM
A guess a lot has changed since Mr. Thrasher graduated from Tisch.
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Jennifer Ray 04/09/2010 9:24:00 PM
To "Paris Hilton": You flippantly write your comment about snuff films being hot and the gruesome details of John's death not being titillating enough for your taste. There is no need to defend John's beautiful character or his memory. The only defense necessary is for your complete lack of judgment and sensitivity. Where is your decency? Or your shame?
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John Burns 04/09/2010 6:44:00 PM
To "Paris Hilton":
"dead brat" huh? Charming.
My daughter knew him. She said he was a good kid.
His family probably has an opinion on him too.
And you? Well, no one cares.
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John Burns 04/09/2010 6:38:00 PM
For all I know, this might be a good article, but I'll never read it because of the title. Whoever thought of it is a soulless prick.
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Name Withheld 04/09/2010 11:10:00 AM
As both an adjunct professor in Tisch's Undergraduate Film & TV Department and a journalist, I found the cover story by the aptly-named Thrasher to be underreported and repeatedly contradictory. There are intimations that NYU is not instituting safety precautions, followed by claims that the students are now inconvenienced by new production restraints. This simply doesn't make sense, nor does most of this bitchy hatchet job.
Despite the fact that I only teach one class per semester -- not even in production, but rather screenwriting -- I was mandated after last summer to attend a lengthy meeting specifically to address safety issues and guidelines. When virtually no one was willing to speak to Thrasher, the Voice's editors should have had the sense to realize that running a credible story about this situation was impossible. And the paper had the chutzpah not only to publish this non-story the week of the First Run Festival, but to surround it with NYU's paid advertisements. It's another nail in the coffin for the once-mighty Voice, clearly so desperate to stay in business that it's willing to lower its standards to that of the sensationalistic, ill-informed New York Post.
While this was without question a tragedy, it is nothing short of remarkable that in the history of NYU's film program, it's the first production-related death. To assign blame to an institution with that track record -- based on the testimony of an outsider who was hired on location and had no actual dealings with the school -- is reprehensible.
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Anonymous 04/09/2010 8:40:00 AM
That you would allow the words "dead brat"to be printed (in one of these comments) to characterize John Lamensdorf is unspeakable. I can only hope that John's grieving parents and sister do not read this article. I know for a fact that the Lamensdorfs have only acted with dignity and kindness since the moment they learned of John's death. i know for a fact that Mrs. Lamensdorf wrote (hand wrote) personal letters to those she knew were on site that night. I know for a fact that the professor and the students are not liable for anything. Either is Welin and he knows it. They all know it. I know for a fact that the Lamensdorfs have been kind and supportive of Andres. He asked to finish John's film and they allowed him to. That's the incredible story you should have told. Neither the Lamensdorfs or Andres deserve how you characterize them. I will respond to one other comment here. That John wasn't qualified to do what he was doing. he was helping with a light not the outrageous equipment brought to the set. I am so upset by this reporting. i will never ever even glance at your publication. No wonder all you achieved after NYU was working for the Village Voice. A good friend to many involved
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George 04/09/2010 8:01:00 AM
Very interesting article - these kind of mistakes would never have been made at my film school - VFS - due to the strong emphasis on safety, and practical & thorough training with equipment.
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anonymous 04/09/2010 6:05:00 AM
There is very much a culture at NYU of students biting off more than they can technically chew. Student films are student films; they should not try to approach the level of professional shoots, regardless of how much money an individual student can lay his or her hands on. This is a tragic story, but it is also a story of judgement calls--what sounds like a confluence of judgment calls gone horribly wrong. Faculty and students should get this through their heads: if you want to work on a professional set, get a job on a professional set, with professionals trained to handle professional equipment. The student equipment avilable at NYU should be more than enough to allow film students to accomplish the films they want to accomplish--and if a student thinks it isn't, then they are not skilled enough yet to warrant anything more complicated. I have long thought that NYU should abolish shoots outside of New York City. When I was a film student there, students went to absurd lengths to make shorts, flying student crews across the country or around the world to shoot what would eventually become 10 or 12 minute films. It was completely ridiculous--and most of the students who made the most elaborate films did not go on to become professional filmmakers. In my view, NYU should have cracked down on the scope of some student films long ago. But film students need to learn to exercise decent judgement too.
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Friend 04/09/2010 12:53:00 AM
I would like to reiterate the previously stated comments.
Sensationalist--regarding to the graphic of electrified film canister.
Tasteless--regarding to the title of this article.
This is a horribly tragic story that isn't being made any more comfortable with articles like this. We all feel for the families effected by this. Those families who have lost a child, and the families of those whose children were part of an unfortunate horrific accident that may or may-not have been avoiding. That is all.
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katrina albright 04/08/2010 10:40:00 PM
Anybody who knew john knows he was a sweet, eager kid trying to fit into the film world. My time at NYU film school was an endless series of encounters with the attitude of neglect and disregard NYU has for anything about its students except their money. Safety training was laughably nonexistent, and anybody could get their hands on anything with the right money. Much like NYUs solution to lock dorm windows rather than provide decent counseling in the wake of a string of suicides, this tragedy highlights the NYU ideal of love for the almighty dollar above all else. Like a lot of film majors, John just wanted to fit into this cut throat industry, but he wasn't remotely qualified to be handling the equipment he was working with--I've been on set with him many times.
I agree that the image (an electrified film canister) and use of the term "Snuff Film" is tasteless, and sensationalistic. However, thank you for writing this story. We, John's friends and classmates deserve to know the details of this tragedy, and not be brushed aside by NYU. With no regard or system to keep kids from getting any equipment they want so long as they can pay, NYU will continue to have this tragedy and others on its conscience--if it has a conscience.
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Lucy 04/08/2010 8:06:00 PM
What did this guy Sacks do?
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Baker 04/08/2010 6:51:00 PM
Blaming professors is vastly different from blaming the school. Professors have also greenlit thousands of other films which went off without a hitch. We cannot expect them to predict every possible mishap, nor can we expect them to vet the crew for skill, when the crew is a rapidly changing, often last-minute collection, many of whom are from other years and classes, and may not be personally known to the professors. Professors are guides. Mentors. They don't assume responsibility for what a large group of students does out in the field, in the heat of the moment, nor should they.
Where we can place some blame is with NYU's curriculum and philosophy. They remain adamantly opposed to large-scale student shoots. Instead of simply capping school support (insurance, equipment, other financially based resources etc.) to projects under, say $12,000 and making the high-budget shoots purchase their own resources, they refuse to properly acknowledge these larger shoots, claiming that we shouldn't be planning them at all. This leads to inadequate safety and planning classes. In my entire time at NYU the ONLY safety class teachings worth anything were in Crawford's advanced Camera II class - an elective. Those classes were fantastic, and made us all infinitely safer. No other teachers or tech instructors went beyond the bare minimum. Safety classes should be required, in levels (Safety I mandatory, Safety II optional, etc.) and students should not be allowed to crew in a Grip & Electric capacity on projects unless they have passed (with an excellent score) the safety course of the proper level for that project.
I'm also going to throw my 2¢ in and agree with those decrying this article for its sensationalist tones. As friends of John, and student filmmakers in general. Seriously. We don't need to see an electrified film canister and yes, the use of the phrase "snuff film" is highly inappropriate, inaccurate, and insensitive.
To those who insist that the details of the accident should be kept private, I urge you to consider the facts separately from the sensationalist writing. The New York Times would also report on all the unpleasant details. We have a RIGHT to know. I'm a friend of John's, and friends with many involved, and due to pending litigation, and out of respect, I haven't pried. But I've wanted to know! I've wanted to know so that I can avoid accidents like this in the future. I've wanted to know because I have a right to know how my friend died. Because I have a right to know what happened to all of my friends out there. And so for that, I applaud this article. Truth should always be available.
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Erik 04/08/2010 12:17:00 PM
We don't even have to go as far as "The Crow" to find an example of an electrical mishap. There is a documentary I saw in class called "Unspooled" about NYU film students in an abandoned New England cabin who are almost killed in an electrical accident, I think in 04'
The SAME NYU professors who green lighted that film green lighted this one. This whole issue is a million times more complex than you're making it out to be.
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Randy 04/08/2010 8:26:00 AM
This is a pretty despicable article with multiple errors. Sensational garbage. Mr. Thrasher would be a good recruit for the News Corporation.
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Pat 04/08/2010 6:06:00 AM
"Snuff film", you say? How trendy and transgressive of you. This is not the first time someone's gotten wacked by electricity on a set - check out the IMDB 'trivia' entry on THE CROW, a film produced by well-compensated and trained professionals. Crew guy on a lift accidentally contacted the overhead wires and BZZZZZTT!! Bear in mind, the vast majority of *professional* motion picture electricians, efx/stunt people and mechanics know their business (saftety included) quite well and yet even then this sort of accident could happen. What you have described was not a professional situationl; pity a moment's inattention and questionable planning cost a life.
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Second Mom 04/08/2010 2:48:00 AM
Mr. Thrasher, John has been gone for less than a year and here you are exploiting the circumstances surrounding his death for profit. You are the reason why newspapers will soon be history. You have no consideration for the trauma that these young people experienced. For the past year they have been trying to put their lives back together and find a way to keep going following the tragic death of a friend. Now you publish all the dirty details, to bring it all back and traumatize them for a second time. You are a disgrace. John's parents and the children's families are the only ones entitled to know what happened that night and NO ONE ELSE! And calling it "NYU's Snuff Film" is revolting and the worst case of yellow journalism I have experienced in my 60 years. You and the Village Voice should be ashamed at the very least. You owe all involved an apology.
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Heidi Goldstein 04/08/2010 1:30:00 AM
I have never been so disgusted and appalled as I am after reading this article. Mr. Welin, how dare you exploit this situation and these people because you can't live with your own shame and guilt. Each person, whose names you so flippantly dragged through the mud to compensate for your clear inability to cope, has had to deal with the memory of this incident every day and has the respect for John and the maturity to spare the general public from the unnecessary details.
Lastly, to Mr. Thrasher and the Village Voice, when have you lowered your content to the level of the National Enquirer and TMZ. It is beyond me how you can so casually publish the horrifying specifics of such a tragic situation as the loss of a young man's life- Forget snuff film, this is sensationalist, trash journalism.
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nina reyes rosenberg 04/08/2010 1:11:00 AM
Your article touches on the fact that what fundamentally contributed to this accident was an academic culture and curriculum that ignores technical and safety standards that normally apply in professional film environments. Your anonymous student source seems to think this culture has been reformed in the aftermath of John's death. However, many accounts from current students contradict this belief. STUDENTS ARE STILL TYING IN. Maybe they don't know the gruesome details. Maybe they don't have the safety training.
Or maybe, as is more likely, they are under the false impression that John's death occurred under circumstances that were distinct from other student shoots. Your article reinforces this notion.
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nina reyes rosenberg 04/08/2010 1:10:00 AM
Also, your article briefly touches on the fact that what fundamentally contributed to this accident was an academic culture and curriculum that ignores technical and safety standards that normally apply in professional film environments. Your anonymous student source seems to think this culture has been reformed in the aftermath of John's death. However, many accounts from current students contradict this belief. STUDENTS ARE STILL TYING IN. Maybe they don't know the gruesome details. Maybe they don't have the safety training.
Or maybe, as is more likely, they are under the false impression that John's death occurred under circumstances that were distinct from other student shoots. Your article reinforces this notion.
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nina reyes rosenberg 04/08/2010 1:07:00 AM
I appreciate your attempt to tell the story behind John's death that students deserve to know. However, I feel it was a mistake to give the false notion that this article is the "whole picture," despite coming mainly from the perspective of one of the people directly responsible, whom you disclose is facing a lawsuit and desperate to get the "blood" off his hands. The claim that "no one seemed very interested in what had happened to Welin" is false--he actually disappeared from the scene before giving his testimony to the police, leaving us students to wrap the set ourselves. I appreciate your quest for the truth, but I hope you aren't under the impression that it has been exposed. Jason left out several key details to his narrative that would further implicate him in John's death.
We miss John, and calling the art that is his only legacy a "snuff" film is at best distasteful and at worst an affront to his memory.
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voodooeconomix 04/07/2010 11:27:00 PM
A tragic story well-told. Welin's story as the outsider is interesting. Society has many in similar categories of unaffiliated workers who are on their own. If a waiver is provided to allow him in then NYU should include him with the students even if only in the University's interest. Leaving him out to dry doesn't seem wise. He'd have only had the job if NYU had permitted it. It's their responsibility to oversee these productions just as if it were a major studio or production company in a similar position.
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PARIS HILTON 04/07/2010 7:51:00 PM
A snuff film---that's hot.
Your not----five pages about this dead brat is soooo boring.
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Perry Kroll 04/07/2010 7:44:00 PM
I just want to go on the record and say that Andrés Cardona is one of the most serious and careful filmmakers I know. His dedication to safety is very professional. For as long as I have known and worked with him, I have been aware of the fact that he takes great effort to raise the safety levels above those observed by his peers and to insure a safe set. He is also one of John's closest friends. Hearing that he is being implicated in this accident only makes the entire situation more tragic and unfair.
