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Yaritza 03/29/2011 3:14:00 AM
this school is the best i will never put my daugther and other schoo because bronx success is good for ur kids
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03/05/2011 2:26:00 AM
Why the nostalgia for old fashioned, disciplinary schools? Didn't we get rid of them when we noticed that they were causing psychologically disturbed kids who grew up to be us?
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02/28/2011 11:51:00 PM
Wonderful! Hope we can all learn to appreciate success just like these great people
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Nick 02/24/2011 3:56:00 AM
She's gotta justify why she makes $300k a year, no?
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Nick 02/24/2011 3:54:00 AM
You're wrong. A charter school's goal is to make a profit. The director of this one is making $300k - she's not doing this out of charity or to give parents choices. If there wasn't a buck to be made, they wouldn't give a rat's tail about your kid.
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Nick 02/24/2011 3:50:00 AM
I think parents today suffer too much from "my child is perfect" syndrome.
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Nick 02/24/2011 3:48:00 AM
I have a question. Why does it take so much work to get a kid to shut up and walk in line?
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Nick 02/24/2011 3:46:00 AM
I think I could do what she's doing and you wouldn't have to pay me $300k, either. I'd do it for $200k. Damn, for that much, I'd have every one of those buggers AND their parents walking in a line with their mouths shut, LOL.
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02/22/2011 4:20:00 PM
Fyi...Highrise fires are very difficult to fight. Most totally destroy the unit because they are contained by cement walls and floors and the contents burn like crazy causing noxious smoke to travel into the hallways and enter other units. Usually there is extensive water damage. Tenants who live in on the floor involved and some on floors above and below have to evacuate the building and it can days before they are allowed to return because of the investigation time if arson and the cleanup operation, repairs, etc...
If children aren't socialized to be in schools and have no attention span, don't understand that they can't behave any way they wish during school hours how can they learn? It isn't up to the teachers to instill these qualities. Parents can't just present their little free-form wild ones to a structured learning environment and say here, teach away. Children need to be taught manners, how to interact with others, how to listen to the teacher, how to obey direction,how to sit still, etc, etc. all before it is time for school BY THE PARENT(S).
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Chrisnyc67 02/21/2011 3:43:00 AM
Actually the traditional approach is to blame the teachers, whom the majority of, despite what you may want to believe, work far harder than any other professionals out there.
What we need to make this work is for parents to be held accountable for their children's actions, in school and out, and for them to take a pro-active role in what happens in their child's school.
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Chrisnyc67 02/21/2011 3:38:00 AM
What differentiates a successful charter school like this from a typical urban public school is parent/community involvement. That's it. Nothing more. This school, and others like it, have a community of families that play a pro-active role in making their sons and daughters successful. Certainly bad teachers are out there, and bad administrators too. None of them want to be bad, most become that way after suffering through the aggravation and frustration of not having parental support, being held accountable for every negative action of a child and having little or no resources or recourse when a child behaves inappropriately or has difficulty with their lessons. Parents are responsible for their children in school and out. If families take an active role in what happens with their children's schooling, as well as with their general upbringing, those bad teachers and administrators will become far and few between. They will adapt and change for the better ...or find themselves forced out by a community who will not tolerate them.
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Kathrowe40 02/10/2011 2:07:00 PM
Enough with North Korea already! This sounds like a good old-fashioned parochial school education to me. In days of yore there were no behavior problems in strict Catholic schools and, because there were no behavior problems, we learned well not only what was taught but self-discipline, respect for others, doing your best, and other values. Today, I have students coming into my community college remedial writing class who never heard of showing up regularly--on time no less, manners, paying attention to the instructor, or doing the work. What a shock they get when I fail them for the course and they have to spend their money to take it over again! That's when they begin to learn.
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torres i rivera 02/10/2011 1:06:00 PM
There are times when children need to explore and talk about what they are exploring, either guided by a method or by desires to learn about a particular phenomena. Although standardized testing does not evaluate the mastery of these procedures, they are essential to encourage and support children in such areas as to how to investigate, structure themselves and achieve personal goals. This article does no indicate if this is the case in these particular schools or if these schools are only concerned with discipline and passing tests.
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02/07/2011 9:49:00 PM
Interesting parallel, Brad. I'd like to turn it on its head: If the fire department stood outside tall apartment buildings (for example) and claimed it was just too difficult to fight high-rise fires, we would be outraged. Indeed, the FDNY has changed its approach to firefighting to face the realities of our urban landscape. Rather than blaming, say, the residents, or the architects, or whatever, they work hard and get the job done.
Yet the traditional approach to addressing the disparities in public education is to blame the students, the parents, 'the system'--instead of just working hard, making changes, and getting the job done.
I posit that our system continues to be broken because we use excuses like poverty and bad parenting. Instead we should just say, "what do we need to do to make this work?" and then do it.
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02/07/2011 8:59:00 PM
The schools are producing these kids? And I thought it was parents. Blaming teachers and principals for failing students is like blaming firemen for conflagrations.
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Guest 02/06/2011 4:04:00 PM
Bhenning 32, your post gives a lot of power to the teachers who's only true power to change is held within the unions. Too bad they are too busy teaching the kids and keeping their jobs to change the system. Regardless, I commend the schools and teachers who are working for the kids (public, private, home, church, charter, where and whatever!) because THAT is what it's all about.
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Bhenning32 02/06/2011 12:51:00 AM
Funny how a semi public school that is getting results that are wonderfull, and will benefit not only the children but their families but also the communities the reside in is despised by the Teachers Unions. Why might that be? SIMPLE, Because iner city school systems as they are are an absolute disgrace and this woman and her ideas and results makes the Do Nothing Leeches in the teachers unions look terrible. Nationwide the Public School System is producing Children who are non preformers, violent, uneducated louts who can`t ever expect to make it in this tough competetive world.Along comes a women who demands results and is fgetting results and she is hated. The hatred should be directed towards the System that has failed to improve one bit in the last 40Years.
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fyrikaos 02/05/2011 11:07:00 PM
The two students as BSA that were no longer there left by parent choice, not by school choice - just an fyi. And I completely agree with you about why we have charter schools. The main issue with space is just that, there isn't much. But a charter cannot and does not go into a building where there isn't already un-utilized space - enough for the charter school students AND the zoned school students and staff. The whole misconception on space is that it is forcing teachers to share classrooms. Not at the same time mind you, but when there are no students in a room for a session ( class period) the room is not being utilized, so another class can be in there. Yes it is nice for a teacher to have a room that is solely theirs, but that is not a necessity for teaching. The DOE determines how much space is being used/unused in a school and offers that space to the charter schools and it is up to a building committee, from what a member of the DOE explained at a recent space hearing at HSA1, comprised of principles of all schools involved and others to decide on a schedule for common spaces ( gyms/cafeterias/play spaces) but it is up to the individual principles of the school to decide how to use their class space.
I don't think you will find any co-located charter school that wishes to see zoned students 'bullied' out of their space they just want fair space for their students as well. And they have a right to space in the school. The buildings are owned by us tax payers, not by the individual schools and the charter parents pay taxes just like the rest so each student, regardless of where they are registered, have a RIGHT to have a seat to learn.
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Buchmuller 02/05/2011 10:24:00 PM
I was in elementary school in the early 1960's in a small town in western NY. We didn't have uniforms but the discipline was about the same as at this charter school. It was the norm and every adult had the right to call you on the carpet for any misbehavior, whether in school or in public. If that happened you can be assured that your parents were told about it, then you got disciplined at home as well.
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Daniel Rosemarin 02/05/2011 6:44:00 PM
How exciting that Bronx Success is making such strides with its students. More power to them. As a recently retired NYC public high school teacher for 25 years, I would have loved to teach students who had gotten such excellent behavioral training.
However, charter schools were not instituted to displace public schools, but to implement educational reforms and innovations with the best possible supports, sort of like a test pilot for what can be achieved in public schools as with the best possible supports.
At the end of the day, all of our students must be welcomed and educated -- including the two at Bronx Success mentioned in the article who are not quite falling into place. Successful charter schools should be helping to lead the way for other schools. They should not be bullying their way into public school buidings, sending students and teachers, scurrying like mice to find new homes. That will only produce chaos in the end, undercutting the intention of school reform.
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fyrikaos 02/04/2011 6:28:00 PM
I'm the parent of a BSA1 scholar - actually I'm the mother of the 'one white child' in the school. This article is just a roller coaster ride and while I did speak with Mr. Thrasher a few weeks ago when he was again visiting the school, I think he may have gotten a few things twisted up. First I need to speak for the "North Korean-like" efficiency on how the school is run. Yes, the children are taught from day 1 how to behave, what is appropriate and what is not. They are taught to respect the school, other students and themselves. They are taught to walk quietly thru the halls as to not disturb the other classes instruction. They are taught to properly walk down the stairs - why? Because when you have a bunch of 5, 6 and 7 year olds and a staircase you tend to have a bunch of kids jumping down steps and twisting ankles/falling, etc. So I suppose 'drilling' into a child's brain how to properly behave can be seen as North Korean-esque I prefer to think that they're just teaching proper manners. He also mentions how a regular zoned school must 'die' in order for a charter school to grow. This is quite untrue as well, and just proves that the media is fueling the fight of parent against parent that the DOE has been hiding behind for way too long. A charter school is placed into a zoned school that has room for it, such as Wilton had the room. While there is enough room there for BSA1 to grow one more grade ( this is according to the PEP web site and the DOE) everyone agrees that beyond that there is not enough room and the charter will either need to move or place it's 3rd grade elsewhere. The goal of a charter is not to kill off zoned schools, it is to give parents the choice for a more immediate change in their child's education. Charters do not hate teachers at zoned schools, or even the administration. They are about doing things differently, being able to do so without the red tape of the DOE and UTF. True, Success Academies may not be for every student or parent, the amount of parental involvement is a huge part of what they're about, but that is the beauty of choice, you have the choice to send your child to a charter, a charter does not have the right to choose you, unlike Mr Thrasher's statement, they do serve everyone. If a school is failing it is because the students are failing, if students are failing it is because the teachers are failing, if teachers are failing it is because the administration is failing and if the admins are failing it is the DOE who is failing them.
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fyrikaos 02/04/2011 6:01:00 PM
I am confused - how is being taught to respect yourself and others around you a role of privilege? The students in charter schools are the EXACT same children that would be in the zoned schools - their parents just decided that they had enough of the zoned schools not doing what needs to be done. Not necessarily because of the teachers or because of the admins at the school - but the public education in this city in general.
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fyrikaos 02/04/2011 5:57:00 PM
According to the charters that is held by the Success Academies, they only open a school with kindergarden and first grade, and then continue to grow each year ( so next year BSA1 will have k-2 grade), but I can tell you that Ms Caracappa will continue to shake each child's hand and know each and every one of their names, as well as us parent's as well. When we pick our children up at the end of the day, we line up and wait our turn so that every day the teacher tells us something about our child's day at school, every day I am told how proud they are of my child and how he is continuously progressing - and for this I am grateful that I don't have to wait for the report card every couple of months or hunt down his teacher in hopes of finding time in both our our busy schedules to find out if he is doing well or not.
As for her salary and where the money is coming from - it's not from the tax payers pocket, I can tell you that much. A lot of it comes from private donations made to the school - from people who have the money and care about a bolder faster change. Eva could pay herself $10k per student as far as I'm concerned as long as my child continues receiving the education he is getting at her school.
I do think that we can all agree that our public education system needs a serious overhaul - but how long are we supposed to wait for that to happen? Let the charter schools run themselves, look at the progress that they are making, we should be keeping a close eye on it and attempt to implement that in our zoned schools. But until the DOE and the UTF get the ideals of 'me me me' out of their minds and remember why we are all here - education for the children - that isn't going to happen.
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fyrikaos 02/04/2011 5:40:00 PM
i have to correct you here and agree with you as well - first, the class sizes are larger, my son's kindergarden class started at 32 and is now down to 29. Which leads to the 2nd part of motivated families - damn straight we're motivated, we want to ensure better lives for our children and that starts with the quality education that they deserve and we will fight to ensure that they get it. As far as resources? Charters get significantly less money per pupil then the regular zoned schools, there is less red tape to cut thru to get what they need for the school and for the students and they take the initiative to seek out private funders, just as the DOE could do, if they actually took the time to do it. As for the full support of the government - yeah don't know where you think that is happening but I think most politicians will agree that what the DOE calls a good education is just not up to par with what we should be providing our kids.
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Wdawkins4bj 02/04/2011 11:59:00 AM
This piece is spot on. The opening made me stop my multitasking and keep reading because the lead made me time travel to middle school during the Ocean Hill-Brownsville clash.
Yes, teachers had to deal with a few or one public school student who just wouldn't shut up and those disruptions caused gaps in learning or scuttled the process, whether that was back in the late '60s or in the 21st century.
I chuckled at the reference to the "divisive documentary." Darn right and right on.
Public education had to be dynamited to its senses so the urban poor can receive quality educations in the main.
Surbuban children deserve same service too because although their burgs often have more resources, many of those schools are not all that.
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Rsqrd 02/04/2011 12:36:00 AM
At AT&T we called it the Hawthorne effect wheich meant that doing anything worked positively for a while because watching any process and giving it management attention caused all the workers to pay more attention. When the attention became commonplace the old yield problems returned because the fundamental problem wasn't addressed. Here the kiddies will do well because they are receiving lots of attention and best of all the difficult ones get expelled or drop out. That means the older system, which has to take all comers will get worse. This charter school demands parental involvement. That too is necessary as the kiddies might actually think that something is important and useful if their parents encourage it. Its easy to say that teachers are no good. Its very hard to say that parents are not good. I remember a parent on line in front of me complaining at some partent/teacher conference that their kid was getting too much homework, she (the Parent) didn't have time to do it. In this whole process I hope the teacher isn't being screwed too badly by autocratic management.
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Dventura611 02/03/2011 9:46:00 PM
I have a child that attends The Sojourner Truth School on 117th street and Lenox ave. My child does eat lunch from 10:40am to 11:30am. I am aware that my child may watch a movie during her lunch period due to weather conditions. However, my child is also required to bring a book with her during the lunch period because they are mandated to read of a book of their choice. I do not understand why Ms. Moskowitz continues to try to make The Sojourner Truth School seems as though rigorous learning isn't taking place. I am very happy with the staff, administration and education my child is receiving for this school! Not to mention that my child is always greeted by her teacher every morning she enters the classroom.
A Satisfied Public School Parent
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Marge K. 02/03/2011 8:24:00 PM
Over a year ago, it was reported by the press that Eva Moskowitz's salary was $316K/year. She draws a salary from each charter school she runs, plus another from the umbrella management company for her schools. The more schools she opens, I guess the more money she will pay herself. (see http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/education/2009/12/13/2009-12-13_charting_new_territory_in_ed_salaries.html)
Wasn't the Governor just complaining the other day in his budget speech about how many School Superintendents there are in NYS and how many of them make more than he does?
Wait until there are scores more Charter Schools with every Head of School paying themselves the big bucks...
You may ask where the money comes from to pay charter operators' salaries - many of these schools hire young teachers at the bottom of the pay scale and have high teacher turn-over so they have lower overall payroll expenditures than schools with long-time experienced teachers.
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Marge K. 02/03/2011 8:15:00 PM
It really seems like the author knows nothing about public schools - of which there are 1,500 in NYC - and many of which have well-behaved students, uniforms, and principals who know each child (if those are the primary indications of a great school).
I never knew that "the most common problem for teachers is that they cannot get their kids to shut up" - I thought the problems were too many kids in the classroom, not enough money for services for needy kids, lack of supplies etc. etc.
I can't speak to the make-up of G&T classes in Manhattan, but here in Queens, we have very mixed G&T classes - my son was one of only two white boys in his 6th grade G&T class. In addition, many schools in D24 have "top" classes where children who are outperforming their peers are grouped together (e.g. my younger son's 4th grade class is one of six classes at that grade level - his is "top" and all the others are heterogenous). I've also seen my principal skip one high performing boy up a grade and put several other children (including an African-American girl from the local homeless shelter) up a grade for part of the day for a specific lesson (e.g. reading) because they were so out-performing others on their grade level. I don't believe that my school is unique in this regard - I think any school that has caring and observant administrators is probably doing things like this.
You'd think by the author's description of the "tenderness" exhibited toward a charter school child with special needs, that nothing like that could ever happen in a public school, when in fact we all know that scenes like that play out day after day. My son's school has a large special ed population (including Down's kids, wheelchair kids, and greatly disabled ones with brain damage) who are mainstreamed with other children for music, gym and other activities and for whom the PTA and school-wide community fundraises to send them to the Special
Olympics games on Long Island each year as well as sponsoring a field trip to a local restaurant for a luncheon.
So sad that the Voice would publish such a one-sided article.
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nigel 02/03/2011 4:16:00 PM
i would like to observe the school. the results are impressive, but u have to look at the costs etc. i has merit! rev. nigel ruppert westham III
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Mbuch 02/03/2011 4:05:00 PM
It's not 'North Korean' to insist that students take responsibility for each other. In life, wen one person fails, the team can fail. that means that the team has to learn to help its weaker members. It says something about the author that the finds of discipline that leads to learning and nurturing is seen as totalitarian.
As a former public school teacher and former attendee of a gifted high school (I'm black, by the way) I applaud this program.
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Lindadbryant 02/03/2011 2:48:00 PM
This country does not want to provide a decent education to all of it's children who unfortunately find themselves in PUBLIC SCHOOLS!
Since the landmark case of Brown vs The Board of Education--some folks are determined
that they do not want their kids sitting next to minority kids----(busing/ re-districting)*
which is why CHARTER SCHOOLS MUST EXIST!
Hopefully, NY will open more Charter Schools in other boroughs!!!!
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Dave Baldwin 02/03/2011 12:38:00 PM
Okay, now that I've read further, it's closer to $2,000 per student, just for her salary. Plus all the other "extra" staff. Where, exactly, does the money come from? And can you imagine what our public schools could look like with that kind of money?
I'm not a big fan of public education. Teaching to the test is absurd. No Child left Behind is making a mockery of the profession. If we'd quit glorifying charter schools, though, and begin to address the real problems in our public schools (starting with funding), public schools could once again be the key to our nation's greatness.
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Dave Baldwin 02/03/2011 12:24:00 PM
186 handshakes = 186 students
With a small school like that, just about anyone could be successful.
I don't know how much Ms. Moskowitz is paid, but I'm guessing it's in the vicinity of $1,000 a student. Just for her salary. Again, with resources like that, just about anyone could be successful.
Every parent shakes the teacher's hand, every day. In most schools, I doubt the parents would recognize the teacher. Again, with that kind of parental involvement, just about anyone could be successful.
Unfortunately, this charter school is somewhat removed from reality.
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guest 02/03/2011 3:23:00 AM
I dealt with bad students. They are taught that there is no punishment for doing bad things. Learning is work and doing wrong is acceptable behavior. The Board of Ed discourages the suspension of bad students, ..."it makes them look bad"?. Now, good students suffer the influences of bad students who are not only classroom distractions, but directly confront good students for being good. Ask the Bd of Ed what are they doing about bad student behavior, you'll get lip service. When I was a young student, a bad student would be suspended and a parent had to show up for a meeting. Us good students saw that, and we stayed good because we didn't want to be suspended, and the distractions were less.
I heard principals, especially new ones, were deemed failures if they suspend students because the suspension itself was proof of bad students. It would effect their record as principal negatively. I'd like to know if this is true.
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02/03/2011 3:15:00 AM
Look, this place is run like the military, plain and simple. And like the military, it's entirely voluntary. A lot of people who have been in the army hate it and a lot of people think of it with nothing but reverence, oftentimes bc. it changed their lives. Also, the fact is, many if not most people are happier (or would be happier) with more structure,with being told what to do more. Structure brings security and even peacefulness to many people. It's one of the conceits of our society that more freedom=more happiness, but I've never really bought it. I think it's great that there are schools like this around for people who want to send their kids there.
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Julie 02/03/2011 2:56:00 AM
It is not a common problem for NYC public school teachers to , "get their kids to shut up," rather, the challenges/problems we face are much more complicated than that and are closely linked to the roles of privilege and subordination in this country, roles that charter corporations like HSA, reinforce.
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Hooligan 02/03/2011 2:23:00 AM
Seig-heil
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02/03/2011 2:16:00 AM
Well I hope that they succeed as the public schools are letting our children down. The system they are using, sounds much like the Catholic school format for controlling the class room noise. It worked for all of us back in my day, it certainly would be an improvement for the kids. The children need guidance from teachers - and the children should learn that what the teachers say is word. Visiting my son's public high school back in the 80's was just a joke. Kids were talking back and forth while I sat in a class. The teacher never stopped to tell the kids to please be quiet, and I was IN the room. My son was in Catholic school in the lower grades and when he got to public school, he said he was bored because he already had the work the previous year in Catholic School. Today he even said he is sorry that he didn't continue in Catholic High. He said he really learned alot more in the lower grades in Catholic School. He was glad for the early discipline in learning in math and English, Without learning these two subjects well, puts any student at a disadvantage. It is the basics for further learning.
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Linn L 02/02/2011 11:36:00 PM
Most Success Charters have class sizes that are larger than the neighborhood schools. Kindergarten classes are usually around 29 kids.
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Rhonda 02/02/2011 11:23:00 PM
I saw that myself. I couldn't find a way to edit a comment after it was posted. I meant to say, "I'll say shame on any family...."
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Curious Observer 02/02/2011 10:53:00 PM
How will you "shame" on a family? Just curious.
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Rhonda 02/02/2011 7:56:00 PM
You have defined private school, except substitute "moneyed families" for "motivated families."
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Rhonda 02/02/2011 7:48:00 PM
Affluent parents who want a more rigorous, disciplined environment than their neighborhood public schools sign up for private school, offering their money sometimes in place of (and sometimes in addition to) their motivation to support their kids' education and school. Shame on anyone who disparages the opportunity for poor families to make a similar choice by offering only their motivation to support their children and schools. Yes, it leaves traditional public schools job more challenging, but are we looking for a system that maximizes opportunities for students and families or for public school teachers and administrators? We need to work toward establishing enough seats in schools like the Success schools for every family that desires one for their child, whether run by a school district or charter school. Then I'll shame on any family that doesn't opt for such for their child. I suspect, in time, there will be very, very few such families.
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Dean1 02/02/2011 5:48:00 PM
Yes, reduce class size, enroll only children from motivated families, and provide more resources and the full support of government, and the results will surely follow.
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Jan 02/02/2011 3:39:00 PM
Nice report and good story but your comparison to an Upper East Side G&T overlooks Harlem's own G&T School (TAG Young Scholars) . TAG is a DOE run school with similar demographics and similar results you might find a good story there as well.
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02/02/2011 12:57:00 AM
Wow, truly heart-warming. Call me whatever you will but it's nice finally seeing black people believe in education and not act out like the whole world's against them for a change! Indeed, the many Caribbean folk I've met are all for stricter education; never understood how race-pimps like Sharpton and Barron (sp?) manage to muck it all up. Now, on another note altogether, that Levine lady looks pretty. Mmmm! I wonder how many boys are happy to oblige her, helping to "artificially" keep things so manageable! As per Socrates, you can't really learn unless there is a personal connection, like love, to the teacher...LOL...but now, back to the subject at hand: what's with the constant North Korean references?? Okay, we get it; can you get over it -- and yourself -- please??
