Top

music

Stories

 

Agnostic Front's Victim in Pain at 25

A crucial 15-minute NYC hardcore origin story gets canonized at last

The Bowery gave birth to New York City punk; 10 years later, a pack of street kids bloodied it up a few blocks east. By the early '80s, most first-wave punk bands (including Television and the Ramones) were going belly-up, going new wave, or going on to release awful albums like Pleasant Dreams. Unimpressed, these new punks, many still teenagers, lived in a series of squats and abandoned storefronts near Tompkins Square Park, where they formed bands, grubbed out a living, and fought vicious battles on the avenues with local thugs who viewed a gang of punk kids as, well, another gang. Beaten and bruised, the young punks traded spiky hair and leather jackets for a more combat-ready look—steel-toe boots, chain belts, shaved heads—and toughened up punk music the same way. They didn't "Beat on the Brat." They swung socks filled with billiard balls. As Murphy's Law frontman Jimmy Gestapo frequently puts it, they were punks who were beaten into being hardcore.

Went to a mosh pit and an Agnostic Front show broke out.
Jessica Bard
Went to a mosh pit and an Agnostic Front show broke out.

Nothing captures the sound of that chaos like Agnostic Front's Victim in Pain, widely regarded as the first New York hardcore album. Released in 1984 but out of print for decades, it has now been reissued by Bridge Nine Records in honor of its 25th anniversary. About time. Victim deserves to be ranked within a stage dive's distance of Velvet Underground and Ramones classics on any list of important and influential New York records. It's an 11-song shit-fit that spawned an entire genre and still spits and growls a perfectly clear and entirely ugly picture of Manhattan street-life.

"All of those songs are totally inspired by the streets of New York and my life and what was going on with my friends," Agnostic Front singer Roger Miret explains. "It was dangerous. We did what we had to do to survive by any means necessary. It was like a war or a battlefield, and we stood our ground."

The Cuban-born Miret was raised in Union City, New Jersey, but split for Manhattan as a teenager to live in basements and squats while hanging out at A7, the legendary East Village after-hours club where punk and hardcore bands played from 1 a.m. to sunrise before an unruly, underaged crowd. (The banner over the stage warned, "Out-of-town bands: Remember where you are.") The members of Agnostic Front asked Miret to be their singer after he cleared the pit during an Angry Samoans show. "The rule for Agnostic Front was that you had to be in the pit," Miret recalls with a laugh. "You had to be a pit person. Nobody cared if you could actually sing, but if you were a terror in the pit, you qualified."

The band quickly released an EP of songs written before Miret joined called United Blood (also reissued this month) and began work on Victim. Whereas the EP was aggressive punk, the full-length celebrated pure, two-fisted hardcore. "We started using the term 'hardcore' because we wanted to separate ourselves from the druggy or artsy punk scene that was happening in New York at the time," says Miret. "That was old Andy Warhol stuff. Just artsy. We were rougher kids living in the streets. It had a rougher edge."

After a CBGB benefit gig to raise money for recording, Miret and bassist Rob Kabula, drummer Dave Jones, and founder/guitarist Vinnie Stigma (who still plays with Miret in Agnostic Front today) recorded Victim in a matter of hours. The result is a 15-minute blast of crystallized frustration unleashed instantly in the howl of the opening title track as Miret wails, "Why am I going insane?/Why am I the one to blame?" The guitars are occasionally sloppy and frequently out of tune, but that doesn't lessen the ferocity as Miret simultaneously calls for unity ("We gotta stick together/Support one another" on "United and Strong") and screams for vengeance ("We hate society and we're here to fight" on "Your Mistake"). Elsewhere, it's Agnostic Front against the NYPD ("Blind Justice"), Agnostic Front vs. capitalist society ("Remind Them"), and Agnostic Front vs. anyone else. The songs took the us-versus-them mentality of other American hardcore bands and applied a New York twist: If the "them" don't stop fucking with "us," we will destroy them. In one swing, Victim left New York City punk with a serious black eye.

Not that everyone noticed, and many who did considered Agnostic Front and the New York hardcore movement they spawned to be nothing more than macho thugs. It's a claim Miret easily cops to. "We were an ugly band playing ugly music. We talked about real shit. People don't want to deal with the harsh reality. It's easier to run a photo of Debbie Harry."

That's exactly what most onlookers did. When CBGB belched up its last breath in late 2006, the parade of nostalgia focused on Blondie, Television, and other '70s bands, largely ignoring the '80s, when hardcore bands like Agnostic Front kept the club afloat. "We played more shows at CBGB than any band ever, and we played more benefit shows for CBGB than any band ever," Miret spits. Even a 2002 gallery show there, filled with photos of Agnostic Front and others from the early days of New York hardcore, didn't help perceptions. "At the end, there was a sign that said that New York hardcore died in 1987," he recalls. "Here it is, 2002, and I am playing a sold-out show at CBGB. How can you say that New York hardcore died in 1987? Maybe you gave up. You quit. You stopped going to shows." He pauses. "Probably because you got beaten up."

 
  • Yo-Chill-Home 05/02/2010 4:58:00 PM

    Oh yes and Kabula Cause for Alarm! He was cool. I think all those guys came to the east side though, and were from New Jersey, now that I think more about it re-reading this article. I know Dave was and Roger as it says, so was Kabula, and some the other people I cannot say. I just remember the squatter people and Harley pointed as his apartment to me once around when I first was introduced to NYHC! Times have changed I cannot believe they are still a band! SO many years! I'm out see you in veinte cinco mas anos! NYHC POW WOW!

  • Yo-Chill-Home 05/02/2010 4:51:00 PM

    Yo personas! Hay demasiado odio para ser escrito aquí! The Mad Russian was named James, he could fight really good, and there was one other guy too besides John, I don't know though now, so long ago. I would like to add, I think the band Mental Abuse, that LP on Urinal Records should have been out there more or on a CD now, unless it is? I don't have a lot of time but saw this and had to write as I also saw old names and good memories. A.F. was great. Mental Abuse I wanted to write about because they reminded me a lot of A.F. Dave Jones of course everyone knows played drums on Victim in Pain and in Mental Absue, and Sid Sludge was just "a fuckin maniac" (Anyone remember the t-shirt he used to wear "I'm a fuckin maniac"!!!!) I piss myself laughing when I saw that, and he had broken his leg after jumping out of a window!? Or some loco, boom bazied on a dare probably, like that. But Mental Abuse I just remember a real similarity between AF and them around this time and they were from NJ somewhere, but NJ I know is for sure. Hardcore punk, I only check up on the stuff when I saw CBGB was closing. I was a kid in downtown NYC who's family came over and we settled there when I was 6.....Hardcore punk rock changed me, or influenced my path. It seems like MTV has their version of it but it is NOTHING like those NYHC sounds and spirit and crazy people of youth. I was an immigrante city kid who wondered what all those freaky white boys and some girls were doing near mi barrio as it was even dangerous for us to go over to the East side due to street and territory beefs, but we did anyway and that is where it all began! They showed me a whole new world and were like a family with each other. I liked the music and lyrics and slamming! It was fun! So for about four to five years it was a big part of my life, than I went to the Army. Harley was the first one I met, and surprised to find out where he lived over in the letters, he showed me around, I couldn't even really speak English very well at the time, I never got in a band or anything but I went and hung out, I remember talking with Roger en espanol, he was cool and the first record and Victim in Pain blew me away! I was quiet and had not much English but the other people mentioned and a few others, showed me a lot of things and ideas, and I had fun instead of getting into trouble (well REAL DEAL trouble), like a lot of youngsters en mi vecindario, they used to tease me why I was into all that white boy shit, and I got beat up a few times, but it just made me love it more, it stood for something, and it also, I guess some people might think oddly, join up with Uncle Sam, even though hardcore punk was against a lot of war and society I wanted to see the world and the Army offered it, plus there was always a feel of American pride too with the skinheads. I still am in the Army and hardcore punk and A.F. played a role in all that, I guess the boots did it! Respects y es todo todavía un ramo de chicos y chicas blancos locos y yo los adoran, MSG. Julio Reyes. My English got better no? haha

  • chuck plutto 02/09/2010 5:30:00 AM

    666

  • kevin 02/05/2010 12:28:00 AM

    agnostic front . victim in pain. great. unfortunatly i was still shitting in my pants when it came out (born in '79) , they are still a pleasure to see. they deserve , and get, respect. ----off the subject, im gonna see cro mags later this month down here(tampa).like i said, im takin any version of nyhc i can get.(i think i shit my pants till i was 16)

  • hardcorerules 01/30/2010 7:52:00 PM

    I heard that Danny Diablo a.k.a. Lord Ezec is the father of Teila Tequiela's baby! Hardcore has gone Hollywood.

  • LORD EZEC 01/06/2010 3:01:00 PM

    Damn, so much hate on this page.Jimmy Gestapo is a true friend and is a person who I looked up to as a kid growing up. It is kinda fucked up that people are taking cheap shots at a true pioneer and legend. I don't understand how my name got into this discussion but everyone knows what I am about. I might be a lot of things but I am not a drug dealer and Murphy's Law is one of the best hardcore bands in the world!!! Agnostic Front Rules!!! P.S. I know that Uncle Al didn't write that but who ever is being a little snitch ass bitch please come see me next time I play so I can help you put back your teeth.

  • Jimmy G 12/27/2009 8:08:00 AM

    Wow! you keyboard warriors have a funny way of showing A.F. respect after 25+ years! Natalie is that what you call yourself now you coward? In the words of the great HC band Undredog "say it to my face" Happy New Year Yall!! Jimmy G Drescher Murphys Law

  • Adam 12/23/2009 9:39:00 PM

    Yes Victim In Pain is and always will be a great album that changed my life...Murphy's Law always was/is a lot of fun, but Jeesh! Aren't most of us approaching some stage of mid-life? Still fighting battles a quarter century out of date seems to me pretty pointless. One of the things that made that "scene" so great was that we were KIDS...kid's do dumb shit (I did my share)...some people continue to do dumb shit. Get over it. Live YOUR life with integrity, live in the PRESENT...nothing else matters. Time to dust off the vinyl find a turntable and play AF for my daughter, which is a way better history lesson.

  • uncle al 12/23/2009 8:11:00 PM

    Victim in pain is a great album. i saw AF a hundred times at CB's in the 80's. Good to see them getting a little light. Gestapo is a coke dealer along with EZEC, Dan Singer, and a bunch of those DMS guys. Everyone in NY knows that.

  • nobody special 12/17/2009 8:27:00 PM

    correction: "were there..."

  • nobody special 12/17/2009 8:25:00 PM

    Wait a minute, Natalie was as much of a coke whore as Jimmy an accused dealer, and since when do people from the hardcore scene air out their dirty laundry in front of the rest of the world? This is about AF, a pioneer band in a hard core scene in New York City when it was a bitch with teeth...we were not saints, it wasn't the "soft core scene" so everyone should shut up now, and if anyone's bitter about having gotten their asses kicked or anything else, get over it...it's been almost 30 years. PS Al, shocking as it may be, there was a scene before Natalie showed her cutie patootie...and lots of us where there, and remember.

  • AL 12/14/2009 11:55:00 PM

    Keep telling the truth Natalie! only you know 'what some" don't have a clue about. I'm with you all the way. keep up the good work girl.

  • Jim 12/10/2009 8:30:00 PM

    The response from Natalie is very bitter. There is no mention of a ton of things because space in here is limited. They could have also mentioned Jimmy "The Kid" Collette dropping out of High School so he can do the Victim In Pain tour But I am certainly not bitter about that..This band has a shitload of history behind it..There is no way they could fit it all in here..

  • nobody else either 12/09/2009 8:59:00 PM

    PsssssssSSSssst! Hey Natalie. Um but isn't your ex-Cokehead. Yes, Drug Dealing Addict Ex-date Jimmy Gestapo who got Himself in "Big Trouble" And has been Indicted on Criminal Charges Because of his Cocaine Drug Dealings and Bad Habbit, First and Last name is "Jimmy Drescher". Yeap that's it Darling. - Jimmy Drescher. :D Well as Nancy Reagan would say. just say no! - NO! But we don't think Jimmy Drescher ever got the message. :D Maybe because he's Braindead?!?

  • Nobody special 12/08/2009 8:10:00 PM

    Good article and absolutely AF deserves this moment in history. Truly one of the best bands to watch over and over in any club on any night or day. I like Natalie's comments too though...the typos (that strangely include Jimmy's last name which is not Dressler, or Dresser, or Diesel either) are very entertaining...and so bitter she posted it twice! I guess those old hardcore days have a lot of sentiments attached to them. Rock On Agnostic Front!!

  • 12/08/2009 7:41:00 AM

    I won't comment on the individual personalities and the drama. I'll keep my comments to AF's Victim in Pain. Agnostic Front was NYHC in the 80's and Victim in Pain defined the NYHC sound that countless meathead bands and metalheads would rip off and imitate for years to come. The NYHC scene of the early and mid 80's (before the late 80's crossover and youth crew scenes) was truly underground and mostly unknown. We didn't have the publicists of the 70's scene or the college radio appeal and big distribution that the West Coast bands had. What made Agnostic Front the face of NYHC around the time Victim in Pain wasn't just that they went on to influence (without credit) so many others and were one of only a handful of NYHC bands to put out a full length album at the time, it was also what they litraly did for the scene. AF was always there to play a benefit when needed or give a new band a hand by putting them on a bill r taking them on the road. Roger in particular was one of the few singers who actually put the scene before their own band and did what he could to keep peace at the shows. Roger and Vinny were also always completely down to Earth and lived the hardcore ideal that there was no difference between the kids hanging out and the kids in the band. The biggest band on the NYHC scene had no rock star egos and were genuinely in it for the scene when it really mattered. A lot of other bands that were smaller than AF fell into the trappings of ego and self importance, but AF never did. Even on in to the late 80's and 90's they were alays willing to help out another band or some kids trying to start up a record store or music space. The scene isn't the same and the music has changed, but I'm glad to see AF in some form still out there doing it. Whatever success they get and whatever they make for themselves at this point they more than earned... and of all of the bands to come out of the NYHC scene, they deserve it more. It's good to see them getting some recognition.

  • Marsy 12/08/2009 4:00:00 AM

    So I take it, Natalie, that you still have feelings for Jimmy Gestapo?

  • penelope 12/06/2009 4:08:00 AM

    Natalie, I bet you're a real pain in the ass.

  • X-HCNYC punk 12/05/2009 9:46:00 AM

    I recall an AF matinee show at CB's in the early 80's where the lead singer for Cause for Alarm subbed for Roger. I also remember that the first lead singer John (wore a mohawk I believe) was a serious tough guy in the pits. I know don't about Jimmy Gestapos behavior outside of the clubs, but I can say that his bands Murphy's Law and the Cavity Creeps were seriously overrated--while Murphy's Law lacked songcraft, the Cavity Creeps lacked talent period with their ability to mangle covers of punk songs. One did not have to be of the LES Streets to make mean nasty HC: The Nihilistics were from Long Island, and many of the people in a lot the bands from back in the day were from Queens or New Jersey. Ultimately, I believe the appeal and indentification with HC came from its ability to rage against the broader pain and hell of life.

  • Natalie 12/04/2009 10:27:00 PM

    !LOL! Bitter? about a Pathetic low life Cocaine drug trafficker such as James Dressler �aka� Jimmy Gestapo? LOL! Ha! ha! HA! No thanks� but nice try. WOW! I Got to hand it to you skinhead_rebel you got one wild Imagination there. maybe you can be that low life Cokehead Drug dealer Jimmy Gestapo�s ass cleaner because maybe you got nobody else to buy your coke from. But this homegirl don�t play that!. All due respect to Vinny and Roger. BUT Jason Buhrmester don�t need a false history lesson from that lowlife Cokehead drug dealer James Dressler �Aka� Jimmy Gestapo. Who like I said before and will say again only wants to change history Around with his pathetic coke head bullshit Reasons & lies. May be if mr. big shot cocaine drug dealer James Dressler �aka� Jimmy Gestapo of the cocaine drug Front Clown act Murphys law didn�t have a lowlife dad who is a drunk alcoholic Window Washer who abused�s his own mother when he used to come home from work, Where they lived in Astoria Queens at (95 33rd st & 34 ave.) Coming home drunk from work all the time slapping his mother up in front of James Dressler �aka� Jimmy Gestapo when he was a skinny runt of a kid he wouldn�t Be a low life Cocaine drug dealer that he is today buy sticking his nose in a.f.�s Glory. And yes! the Story is about a.f. And Victim in pain. Not About Jimmy (Cokehead) Drug Dealer Gestapo (Sticking His nose) in Vinny and Roger business. Which he has no credibility to do So. And I�m pretty sure Vinny and Especially roger don�t wont James Dressler �aka� Jimmy Gestapo�s low life cokehead dealing drug addict ass speaking for them. What a joke! If you want a real history lesson your better off asking Tommy rat for his advice and not that (I have to steal the spot light) low life coke drug Dealer James Dressler �aka� jimmy Gestapos� bogus two cents advice. That low Life James Dressler can�t even hold a Job . Not alone band members. That�s why he always in the end winds up screwing over All his ex- members all of them. Either by not paying them or by getting them drugged up on coke and dope just to later on throw them out of that lowlife clown act poor excuse of a band later on. Once a Coke Drug trafficking low life. always a Drug trafficking low life and James Dressler �aka� Jimmy Gestapo of that low life clown act murphys law is one of them. Along with His Side of his Pathetic Cocaine Drug front NYHC world which is going to be Dead And Real gone soon, Thanks to him. So anyone who follows him is either a loser" or on drugs". and murphys law is a loser clown act that no one cares about or takes seriously in hardcore world. and that's a fact! James Dressler "aka" Jimmy Gestapos So-Called Hardcore History is Over.

  • skinhead_rebel 12/04/2009 7:07:00 PM

    Natalie, You sound really bitter. Get over it. The story is about Victim in Pain, not the stuff before Roger joined the band. And thanks to Buhrmester and the Voice for running this feature. New York hardcore never gets the credit it deserves.

  • epac 12/04/2009 3:13:00 AM

    Natalie^^^ what "credit" are you referring to? So what if John Watson sang w/ AF prior to Roger? (For that matter, so did someone called "The Mad Russian", but I don't see you complaining about that). What songs did JW write, what material did he record with them? So what if he grafittied a banner??? Not trying to dis the guy, but 9 out of every 10 bands goes through their formative years with a revolving door of musicians. JW was one of them.

  • Natalie 12/03/2009 8:47:00 PM

    Too bad Jason Buhrmester had to get a "False" history Lesson from Astroia Queens Sad asS Low life Cocaine Drug Dealer James Dressler "aka" Jimmy Gestapo of the Bogus Drug front band murphy's law. I should know because i dated this creep who just' wants to change history by not giving John watson who was a.f.s first original singer credit where credit is due. And as for the out -of- town bands remember where you are. it was not on a banner on the stage of A-7. it was graffitied on the wall by Jonh watson along w/ bubie, clyde billy and carolyn of killer instincts on the outside wall of A-7 on e.7th st. and Ave A. Just for your Correction.

 

Most Popular Stories

Find a Concert


Browse Voice Nation
  • Voice Places

    Voice Places

    Discover restaurants, nightlife, travel, shopping...

  • VOICE Daily Deals

    VOICE Daily Deals

    Get 50 to 90% off every day on restaurants, movies, massages...

  • Best Of

    Best Of...

    More than 10,000 of the BEST things to eat, drink, and experience

  • My Voice Nation

    My Voice Nation

    Join the Village Voice community and get exclusive deals and info

  • Happy Hour

    Happy Hour

    Your local Happy Hour guide at your fingertips

or

Log in or Sign up

Social Connect:

Use your favorite account to access My Voice Nation.


Use your My Voice Nation account to log in:





Forgot password?
or

Sign Up or Log in

Social Connect:

Sign up for My Voice Nation with your preferred network.


Sign up for a My Voice Nation account:



Privacy policy